Literature Courses: Help or Hindrance? - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T13:16:47Zhttp://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/537324:Topic:11187?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A11397&xg_raw_resources=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI'd go with help--it sure hel…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-03-31:537324:Comment:1908962009-03-31T01:34:24.327ZToni L.P. Kelnerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/ToniLPKelner
I'd go with help--it sure helped me. I have a bachelor's degree in English.<br />
<br />
One, it was a place to read a lot of different things. Two, I had to write papers, and writing is always good practice for writers. Three, when I was performing literary criticism, it taught me that what the reader gets out of the work may be more or less than what the author intended, which made the author seem that much more of a person and the job of a writer that much more possible.<br />
<br />
And fourth, and most important,…
I'd go with help--it sure helped me. I have a bachelor's degree in English.<br />
<br />
One, it was a place to read a lot of different things. Two, I had to write papers, and writing is always good practice for writers. Three, when I was performing literary criticism, it taught me that what the reader gets out of the work may be more or less than what the author intended, which made the author seem that much more of a person and the job of a writer that much more possible.<br />
<br />
And fourth, and most important, the study of literature is like any liberal art: if done right, it teaches students how to learn. I couldn't be writing mysteries now if I didn't continue to learn about all kinds of bizarre things. (The last book I wrote includes background on pinup queens and TV cowboys, and I had to learn about both.) Literature courses cannot hur…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-03-31:537324:Comment:1908872009-03-31T01:09:24.544ZJohn Desjarlaishttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JohnDesjarlais
Literature courses cannot hurt, but a poor literature teacher can, as others have suggested.<br />
<br />
I teach American Lit 1865-present AND Detective Fiction at my college. In the American Lit course, we read Dash Hammett's "The Maltese Falcon" (the week before we tackle TS Eliot) and in Detective Fiction we read Dickens (Drood, of course) and Faulkner along with great 'genre' writers.
Literature courses cannot hurt, but a poor literature teacher can, as others have suggested.<br />
<br />
I teach American Lit 1865-present AND Detective Fiction at my college. In the American Lit course, we read Dash Hammett's "The Maltese Falcon" (the week before we tackle TS Eliot) and in Detective Fiction we read Dickens (Drood, of course) and Faulkner along with great 'genre' writers. Yep.tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-03-29:537324:Comment:1905302009-03-29T01:14:47.554ZJackBludishttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JackBludis
Yep.
Yep. One of the best pieces of adv…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-03-29:537324:Comment:1905272009-03-29T01:13:51.811ZJackBludishttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JackBludis
One of the best pieces of advice I ever got from a creative writing instructor was: read the classics, but read what's out there now.<br />
<br />
Literature courses CANNOT hurt. Reading good new work or even current trash doesn't hurt either.
One of the best pieces of advice I ever got from a creative writing instructor was: read the classics, but read what's out there now.<br />
<br />
Literature courses CANNOT hurt. Reading good new work or even current trash doesn't hurt either. That makes sense. I never saw…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-03-23:537324:Comment:1893472009-03-23T17:28:36.292ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
That makes sense. I never saw a single textbook used by my daughter's school that was any good.<br />
There is a chance that between the textbooks and the lock-step teaching system in place at American lower schools the kids begin to hate liberal arts.
That makes sense. I never saw a single textbook used by my daughter's school that was any good.<br />
There is a chance that between the textbooks and the lock-step teaching system in place at American lower schools the kids begin to hate liberal arts. I agree Ingrid.
I loved the…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-03-23:537324:Comment:1893452009-03-23T17:25:42.606ZEDWARD C MORGANhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/ECMorgan
I agree Ingrid.<br />
<br />
I loved the professors and the handful of high school teachers that would meet my challenge, and then turn around and challenge me to push beyond what I thought, believed, had learned thus far. My honors english teacher my senior year of high school was the first one that really hit me like that.... and I loved one of her stock responses to my inquiries: "Sounds like you got some reading to do. And stay away from the textbook. Won't learn anything there." Or something similar.
I agree Ingrid.<br />
<br />
I loved the professors and the handful of high school teachers that would meet my challenge, and then turn around and challenge me to push beyond what I thought, believed, had learned thus far. My honors english teacher my senior year of high school was the first one that really hit me like that.... and I loved one of her stock responses to my inquiries: "Sounds like you got some reading to do. And stay away from the textbook. Won't learn anything there." Or something similar. Thank you, and my compliments…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-03-23:537324:Comment:1892742009-03-23T12:46:37.390ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Thank you, and my compliments. Asking "why?" opens up literature to beginners and experienced readers alike. Asking the professor/teacher "why?" gets you answers, but if you ask the question of the literary novel or play or poem, you gain some amazing insights into how the artist worked and what he meant.<br />
<br />
Things get a bit trickier if you apply this to your average best seller. :)
Thank you, and my compliments. Asking "why?" opens up literature to beginners and experienced readers alike. Asking the professor/teacher "why?" gets you answers, but if you ask the question of the literary novel or play or poem, you gain some amazing insights into how the artist worked and what he meant.<br />
<br />
Things get a bit trickier if you apply this to your average best seller. :) I think Clay implies an excel…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-03-23:537324:Comment:1892722009-03-23T12:43:14.280ZDana Kinghttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/DanaKing
I think Clay implies an excellent point here. The teacher is everythign in such a course. What is read and studied is less important than how the teacher presents it, and leads the discussions.
I think Clay implies an excellent point here. The teacher is everythign in such a course. What is read and studied is less important than how the teacher presents it, and leads the discussions. I think it helps.
Many piece…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-03-23:537324:Comment:1892212009-03-23T02:56:22.126ZEDWARD C MORGANhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/ECMorgan
I think it helps.<br />
<br />
Many pieces of literature have the same elements that we look for in novels today. Passion. Character development. Dialogue. Plot. Motivations. And the countless other elements.<br />
<br />
I believe a writer a couple hundred years ago chose his or her words just as carefully as I try to. The same with sentence, paragraph and story structure.<br />
<br />
The teaching of literature CAN cause problems in some circumstances.<br />
<br />
In high school, honors freshman english was a nightmare. We were reading…
I think it helps.<br />
<br />
Many pieces of literature have the same elements that we look for in novels today. Passion. Character development. Dialogue. Plot. Motivations. And the countless other elements.<br />
<br />
I believe a writer a couple hundred years ago chose his or her words just as carefully as I try to. The same with sentence, paragraph and story structure.<br />
<br />
The teaching of literature CAN cause problems in some circumstances.<br />
<br />
In high school, honors freshman english was a nightmare. We were reading Great Expectations, Silas Marner and the like. I remember being assigned Great Expectations, going home and reading the whole novel that night, and being intrigued by imagery, character development and the structure of the English language. And I have this annoying habit of wanting to ask "why" or "how do you know" or stating that I think differently. The teacher was not amused and I became very good friends with the school's vice principal of discipline.<br />
<br />
Senior honors english, where we studied the romantic poets, shakespeare and others, was different. My question of "why" sparked great conversations with the teacher and sparked research assginments - she was not afraid to be challenged.<br />
<br />
Even if you don't like it, you can learn a lot from it...there is value in learning what you do not like, what you feel does not work, and applying it to your own writing. I think the way lit is often…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-03-20:537324:Comment:1888982009-03-20T22:33:11.363ZJon Loomishttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JonLoomis
I think the way lit is often taught now, at least at the college level, can be not just a hindrance but a serious problem. In many departments these days there's a consuming emphasis on theory; outside of the old-fashioned great-books programs, hardly anyone teaches close reading of canonical works anymore. Combined with the push toward diversity, students are likely to get six different theoretical approaches to "Beloved" and no dead white guys; even the use of the term "canonical" is…
I think the way lit is often taught now, at least at the college level, can be not just a hindrance but a serious problem. In many departments these days there's a consuming emphasis on theory; outside of the old-fashioned great-books programs, hardly anyone teaches close reading of canonical works anymore. Combined with the push toward diversity, students are likely to get six different theoretical approaches to "Beloved" and no dead white guys; even the use of the term "canonical" is controversial in many English departments. Still, if it's taught right, a lit course can be a great thing for students--and one of the most confounding issues I confront year after year as a creative writing teacher is that most of my students haven't read anything (except maybe Harry Potter and Beloved over and over, God help them)--no Hamlet, no Moby Dick, no Great Gatsby, no One Hundred Years of Solitude, and so on. What they have read in high school or college they have no coherent context for and can't place in period, much less in the broader sweep of literary tradition. There's no question in my mind that avid and astute readers have a better shot at becoming good writers than non-readers, so we find ourselves teaching a fair amount of lit--from a writerly point of view--in our creative writing classes.