Author Union - CrimeSpace2024-03-28T22:47:15Zhttp://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/537324:Topic:118022?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A118149&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI don't know much about them,…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-01-25:537324:Comment:1191252008-01-25T04:52:56.277ZEDWARD C MORGANhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/ECMorgan
I don't know much about them, but there is a "union." The National Writer's Union.<br />
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As I said, I don't know much about them, but several years ago, they put out a book about rights and contracts and such.
I don't know much about them, but there is a "union." The National Writer's Union.<br />
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As I said, I don't know much about them, but several years ago, they put out a book about rights and contracts and such. Did you quote the part of my…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-01-24:537324:Comment:1189962008-01-24T21:50:59.338ZJohn Dishonhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/whiteskwirl
Did you quote the part of my post that you meant to? Because your rebuttal actually reinforces the quote you have in bold at the top of your post.<br />
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I was saying that you probably won't make much money publishing a book regardless. But if you want readers, go to the internet. And then you backed me up. You get 10,000 d/l per issue? That's pretty darn good, and I would say that's a large readership. And it's on the internet. That reinforces the second half of my quote. Less than 1/20 of that…
Did you quote the part of my post that you meant to? Because your rebuttal actually reinforces the quote you have in bold at the top of your post.<br />
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I was saying that you probably won't make much money publishing a book regardless. But if you want readers, go to the internet. And then you backed me up. You get 10,000 d/l per issue? That's pretty darn good, and I would say that's a large readership. And it's on the internet. That reinforces the second half of my quote. Less than 1/20 of that 10,000 have bought your book. You didn't self-publish, correct? So you went through a publisher. And you didn't make a whole lot (well, how much is a whole lot, right? But you imply it's not much when you say "means shit for sales"). So that reinforces the first part of my quote.<br />
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It seems that you really responded to the part where I said that with effective online marketing, i can get all the sales I want. How many sales is that? Well, that's subjective; it would be a different number for every person, so saying that if I think Amazon is enough than I'm dreaming isn't fair, especially since I said that I would rather have a 1000 readers and no money than $1000 and only one reader. Amazon might not be enough for you, but it just might be enough for me.<br />
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And again, I've said time and again that my ideas put forth will mean more in the future. I do believe it will be less than 30 years, but of course, I have no way to prove something that hasn't happened yet; I'm just speculating. So if you just want to make m…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-01-24:537324:Comment:1189432008-01-24T20:13:40.442ZSandra Ruttanhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Sandramre
<b>So if you just want to make money, well...I guess there isn't an option at all, since in all likelihood, you won't make much money even with a "traditional" publisher. But if you want a large readership? The internet.</b><br />
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NO. I run an online ezine that averages more than 10,000 downloads per issue. Not even 1/10 of that number have bought my first book. Not even 1/20. Lee Child walked up to me at Bouchercon Madison and said, "You have a huge online presence."<br />
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Means shit for sales.<br />
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If you…
<b>So if you just want to make money, well...I guess there isn't an option at all, since in all likelihood, you won't make much money even with a "traditional" publisher. But if you want a large readership? The internet.</b><br />
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NO. I run an online ezine that averages more than 10,000 downloads per issue. Not even 1/10 of that number have bought my first book. Not even 1/20. Lee Child walked up to me at Bouchercon Madison and said, "You have a huge online presence."<br />
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Means shit for sales.<br />
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If you think amazon is enough, you're dreaming. Thirty years from now we'll have a different conversation, but right here, right now, no no no. John, you say "I can put it u…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-01-24:537324:Comment:1187032008-01-24T09:02:51.093ZSteve Mosbyhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/stevemosby
John, you say "I can put it up on Amazon.com so people can find it", but I think the reality behind that sentence is a little more complicated than you suggest...<br />
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But anyway, imagine every single writer goes down the self-published route. Effectively, you now have a hundred-thousand publishing companies with a single employee, either doing all the work for themselves or farming parts out to charitable friends, or paying relative strangers. Each writer is trying to establish the credibility of…
John, you say "I can put it up on Amazon.com so people can find it", but I think the reality behind that sentence is a little more complicated than you suggest...<br />
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But anyway, imagine every single writer goes down the self-published route. Effectively, you now have a hundred-thousand publishing companies with a single employee, either doing all the work for themselves or farming parts out to charitable friends, or paying relative strangers. Each writer is trying to establish the credibility of their company: how do they differentiate themselves from the crowd - or how does the reader?<br />
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Internet marketing can help, I'm sure, but beyond a certain level of ingenuity, internet marketing costs money (and has no actual bearing on the quality of the product). The writers with the most cash behind them will therefore have the most opportunities to at least <i>get their work into readers' hands</i>. To address the issue of credibility, it will make sense for writers to form loose, reciprocal connections with successful artists, editors, designers, publicists, and so on, and maintain those from book to book. The company expands, everybody taking a cut, and develops a house style the reader can recognise. As the world moves on, the connections will firm up to form smaller versions of modern day publishing houses. They will even take on more authors that fit the house, lending them the benefit of their expertise. All the time, the company will be accumulating money in the background that renders the profits of an individual house writer less and less important to the company as a whole. And so on...<br />
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In such a way - IMHO - a corporate structure would rise out of the mists of feudalism. The writers outside the companies would remain frustrated. The consumer, most likely, would breathe a massive sigh of relief. I agree, that is a problem. B…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-01-24:537324:Comment:1186082008-01-24T01:43:29.531ZJohn Dishonhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/whiteskwirl
I agree, that is a problem. But why do authors put up with it? I think maybe it's because authors don't think there is an alternative if they want their book published. (Yes, self-publishing, but most don't really consider that an option,and given most examples of self-published books I've seen, I don't blame them.)
I agree, that is a problem. But why do authors put up with it? I think maybe it's because authors don't think there is an alternative if they want their book published. (Yes, self-publishing, but most don't really consider that an option,and given most examples of self-published books I've seen, I don't blame them.) Amazon.com is distribution. Y…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-01-24:537324:Comment:1186062008-01-24T01:41:15.718ZJohn Dishonhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/whiteskwirl
Amazon.com is distribution. You can get your book on Amazon without having to go through a major publisher. In brick and mortar stores, yes, that is something a major publisher can do that I can't, on a large scale, as I have mentioned already below. Online sales may be 10% now, but that will also change. That number will go up. And if marketed online effectively, and yes, with some luck, I can get all the sales I want online. But then my personal goals/beliefs are not universal. If I had a…
Amazon.com is distribution. You can get your book on Amazon without having to go through a major publisher. In brick and mortar stores, yes, that is something a major publisher can do that I can't, on a large scale, as I have mentioned already below. Online sales may be 10% now, but that will also change. That number will go up. And if marketed online effectively, and yes, with some luck, I can get all the sales I want online. But then my personal goals/beliefs are not universal. If I had a choice between 1000 people reading my book for free or one person reading my book for $1000, I would take the 1000 readers.<br />
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The way I see it, advertising outside of the internet for books is practically non-existent unless you already have a readerbase. What books do you see advertised anywhere besides the internet? Bestsellers, 90% of the time at least. Okay, newspaper reviews, but newspaper readership is declining and has been for a long time. PW reviews, but only industry people read that anyway.<br />
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So if you just want to make money, well...I guess there isn't an option at all, since in all likelihood, you won't make much money even with a "traditional" publisher. But if you want a large readership? The internet.<br />
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As far as self-publishing being a step back, I refer you to my second post here. Yes, it is a step back right now. But that can change.<br />
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"And truly, if someone can't design a cover or do proper edits, at least pay a professional."--Are you saying that a person can only be good at something if he/she is getting paid for it (payment is, after all, what separates the professional from the amateur)? I don't believe you are saying that, since you said if a person can't do it himself, but if I can't do it myself I can enlist the help of others who would be willing to do it for free, such as the example I gave below. I don't think you can standar…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-01-24:537324:Comment:1185902008-01-24T00:55:27.931ZSandra Ruttanhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Sandramre
I don't think you can standardize advances, other than set bottom rates, but what I would like to see is a policy on payment of advances in a reasonable amount of time. I know people with books coming out in less than two months who haven't been paid. That's a problem.
I don't think you can standardize advances, other than set bottom rates, but what I would like to see is a policy on payment of advances in a reasonable amount of time. I know people with books coming out in less than two months who haven't been paid. That's a problem. But the truth is, a publisher…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-01-24:537324:Comment:1185872008-01-24T00:53:09.733ZSandra Ruttanhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Sandramre
<b>But the truth is, a publisher like Random House offers nothing that I can't do myself. Maybe the publisher can do it better and/or easier, but I have the ability, should I choose to do it, to write my novel, get some people to help me edit it, design my own cover for it, typeset it, and contract with a POD press or if I had the initial investment, an off-set press, and I can put it up on Amazon.com so people can find it.</b><br />
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I must disagree. What the publishers offer us, beyond…
<b>But the truth is, a publisher like Random House offers nothing that I can't do myself. Maybe the publisher can do it better and/or easier, but I have the ability, should I choose to do it, to write my novel, get some people to help me edit it, design my own cover for it, typeset it, and contract with a POD press or if I had the initial investment, an off-set press, and I can put it up on Amazon.com so people can find it.</b><br />
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I must disagree. What the publishers offer us, beyond "credibility", is distribution. As someone picked up by a tiny press for the first book I know first hand about the challenges of getting the book in bookstores. Current estimates are that only 10% of book sales happen online.<br />
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And truly, if someone can't design a cover or do proper edits, at least pay a professional.<br />
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Self publishing is a step back from where we're at right now, if you ask me. Long post, so just a couple o…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-01-23:537324:Comment:1184942008-01-23T18:39:11.928ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Long post, so just a couple of things:<br />
Amazon vs B&N (or other stores): quite right both on the ordering ease and the fast shipping. Also, their selection is vast. Brick and mortar stores cater to the best sellers (which is why our book production is totally out of whack and weighted toward bad thrillers or romances).<br />
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Editors: There are two kinds for every published book: the acquisitions editor, who chooses title, cover art, and maybe (this is a big maybe), reads and suggests changes in…
Long post, so just a couple of things:<br />
Amazon vs B&N (or other stores): quite right both on the ordering ease and the fast shipping. Also, their selection is vast. Brick and mortar stores cater to the best sellers (which is why our book production is totally out of whack and weighted toward bad thrillers or romances).<br />
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Editors: There are two kinds for every published book: the acquisitions editor, who chooses title, cover art, and maybe (this is a big maybe), reads and suggests changes in the text. From what I have seen, these folks are often very young. The other kind is the copy editor, sometimes in-house, but also often part of some home industry elsewhere in the country. He/she is responsible for the grammar, diction, spelling, punctuation, capitalization, American spelling, and just about every picky little thing having to do with writing. My guess is that these folks are retired English teachers. For an author they are useful but also hugely time-consuming and irritating, since their every objection (they are industrious creatures with lots of time on their hands) has to be checked, and reasons given for every "stet."<br />
If a book is published with gross errors still in it, I would be very tempted to blame it on the author (refusing to allow changes to the author's version) or on the type setter ignoring all corrections passed to him/her by the author in the ms. and in the galleys.<br />
But what this illustrates is that there is a whale of a lot of work done by a writer after the book is sold. So the union idea obviously i…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-01-23:537324:Comment:1184302008-01-23T16:12:12.441ZRobert Freemyerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/brokenci
So the union idea obviously isn't the way for authors to go. I really liked John Dishon's discourse on the subject and I wish I had a tutorial on marketing on the internet. My book 'Broken City' actually has a blurb on the back by Jim Cohn (an Amazon critic) yet I cannot figure out how to get it listed on Amazon.
So the union idea obviously isn't the way for authors to go. I really liked John Dishon's discourse on the subject and I wish I had a tutorial on marketing on the internet. My book 'Broken City' actually has a blurb on the back by Jim Cohn (an Amazon critic) yet I cannot figure out how to get it listed on Amazon.