On Yearning and Writer's Block - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T12:32:01Zhttp://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/537324:Topic:152911?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A152984&feed=yes&xn_auth=noyour last paragraph is the be…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-05:537324:Comment:1543042008-08-05T15:09:00.380Zcarole gillhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/PhyllisDietrichson
your last paragraph is the best description of writer's block I have ever heard!<br />
Well-said, Jude!
your last paragraph is the best description of writer's block I have ever heard!<br />
Well-said, Jude! I ran into Butler twice at Fl…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-03:537324:Comment:1539552008-08-03T09:12:48.386ZJack Getzehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JGetze
I ran into Butler twice at Florida writers' conferences. The first time, I turned up my nose at his literary/genre discussion and walked out. The second time (How did my friends talk me into hearing him again?) I listened raptly as he read a short story. Truthfully, the story was wonderful, so I bought this book John talks about. It's also wonderful, although I've ignored all the literary/genre bullshit and concentrated on that unconsciousness he tells you to seek. I begin my writing now after…
I ran into Butler twice at Florida writers' conferences. The first time, I turned up my nose at his literary/genre discussion and walked out. The second time (How did my friends talk me into hearing him again?) I listened raptly as he read a short story. Truthfully, the story was wonderful, so I bought this book John talks about. It's also wonderful, although I've ignored all the literary/genre bullshit and concentrated on that unconsciousness he tells you to seek. I begin my writing now after waking up at 3 or 4 in the morning, and I can't imagine changing. I love it.<br />
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Butler's a great, moving writer. He's just pissed his books don't sell like Patterson. I'm not going to argue about…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-07-25:537324:Comment:1532742008-07-25T19:10:39.451ZAngiehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/slackerwriter
I'm not going to argue about whether or not writer's block exists. I've experienced it both as a visual artist (painter) and as a writer, and it seems that people who claim it's not 'real' have never experienced it. Um, okay. Whatever. Perfectly fine to agree to disagree. Of course you can continue to write/paint/compose/pick your poison. Sometimes stepping back is the only way to let your mind recharge and refocus. I'm very wary of blanket 'fixes' and blanket generalizations on this…
I'm not going to argue about whether or not writer's block exists. I've experienced it both as a visual artist (painter) and as a writer, and it seems that people who claim it's not 'real' have never experienced it. Um, okay. Whatever. Perfectly fine to agree to disagree. Of course you can continue to write/paint/compose/pick your poison. Sometimes stepping back is the only way to let your mind recharge and refocus. I'm very wary of blanket 'fixes' and blanket generalizations on this subject.<br />
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As for the idea of 'yearning,' I have to agree with Dana's Vonnegut quote, which is a simpler way of stating R.O. Butler's premise. Stakes are a vital part of the engine that drives any good story, regardless of whether that story is put in the 'genre' box or the 'literary' box. And frankly, I find this constant picking at the differences between genre & literary fiction disingenuous and unnecessarily elitist. Not making a jab at you, John, just tired of the general debate that does little to move the field of fiction forward. I just don't see what the big damn deal is.<br />
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The premise of the book sounds interesting, but I have to confess I'm not sure if I'd be up to wading through the overall tone based on your excerpts. Thanks for posting about it, though. Always good to hear about new takes on the how and why of writing. It made me feel like a voyeur…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-07-25:537324:Comment:1532292008-07-25T13:20:54.508ZElizabeth Zelvinhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/lizzelvin
It made me feel like a voyeur to read Butler talking about literary fiction writers as "us" and genre writers as "them." I'm glad I wasn't in his class! I had to smile when he said the reason literary writers get blocked is that they have to get to the unconscious and they can't always do it readily. Anybody who's ever read Julia Cameron's THE ARTIST'S WAY (or talked to somebody who has) knows that you don't need to be unblocked to write "morning pages," ie go straight to the unconscious and…
It made me feel like a voyeur to read Butler talking about literary fiction writers as "us" and genre writers as "them." I'm glad I wasn't in his class! I had to smile when he said the reason literary writers get blocked is that they have to get to the unconscious and they can't always do it readily. Anybody who's ever read Julia Cameron's THE ARTIST'S WAY (or talked to somebody who has) knows that you don't need to be unblocked to write "morning pages," ie go straight to the unconscious and write down everything you find there. After that, you can sit down and work on your manuscript. Freud called dreams "the royal road to the unconscious," so maybe morning pages are, hmmm, a winding country road to the unconscious. And did I understand correctly that Butler claims genre writers write more easily because we're willing to write garbage? Puh-leeze! I agree. Getting words down i…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-07-23:537324:Comment:1531072008-07-23T22:29:46.581ZDana Kinghttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/DanaKing
I agree. Getting words down is what makes the writer; publication doesn't enter into it. What someone's called if they're published or not is a whole 'nother discussion.
I agree. Getting words down is what makes the writer; publication doesn't enter into it. What someone's called if they're published or not is a whole 'nother discussion. I agree. This isn't really an…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-07-23:537324:Comment:1530982008-07-23T21:43:08.800ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
I agree. This isn't really an ego thing. It's a fact of life. I never once got a charge out of holding one of my books or a contract. I don't get a charge from fan mail, though I'm grateful. I do get a charge out of a neat twist I manage, or out of a particularly strong scene, but trust me, that fades quickly enough when I struggle with something else.<br />
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I would say, however, that you are a writer as long as you keep struggling with the words and consider what you are doing as a profession. The…
I agree. This isn't really an ego thing. It's a fact of life. I never once got a charge out of holding one of my books or a contract. I don't get a charge from fan mail, though I'm grateful. I do get a charge out of a neat twist I manage, or out of a particularly strong scene, but trust me, that fades quickly enough when I struggle with something else.<br />
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I would say, however, that you are a writer as long as you keep struggling with the words and consider what you are doing as a profession. The market doesn't always respond favorably to effort, even when the writing is very good. Then what are they? Writers w…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-07-23:537324:Comment:1530722008-07-23T18:47:16.467ZDana Kinghttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/DanaKing
Then what are they? Writers write. I know quite a few people, fine writers when they do it, who seem to be in love more with the idea of being a writer than with the work of actually being a writer. If words aren't getting put on paper, they're not writing. If they're not writing, they're not writers. It's not a question of what they'd like to be called; it's a simple definition of what they do. Or don't do.<br />
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Cal Ripken WAS a baseball player. Warren Rudman WAS a United States Senator. Harper…
Then what are they? Writers write. I know quite a few people, fine writers when they do it, who seem to be in love more with the idea of being a writer than with the work of actually being a writer. If words aren't getting put on paper, they're not writing. If they're not writing, they're not writers. It's not a question of what they'd like to be called; it's a simple definition of what they do. Or don't do.<br />
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Cal Ripken WAS a baseball player. Warren Rudman WAS a United States Senator. Harper Lee WAS a writer. All were good; none does that any more, so past tense is justfied. If you want to stipulate that someone who has been blocked for an indefinite period of time USED TO BE a writer, I see no srea for disagreement, but no one's a writer just because they say they are. "People who haven't written f…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-07-23:537324:Comment:1530652008-07-23T17:34:44.417ZJohn Dishonhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/whiteskwirl
"People who haven't written for a year or more because they claim to have writer's block pretty much waive the right to be called writers."--This sounds a bit pretentious too.
"People who haven't written for a year or more because they claim to have writer's block pretty much waive the right to be called writers."--This sounds a bit pretentious too. I'm voting with the "pretenti…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-07-23:537324:Comment:1530562008-07-23T16:50:01.522ZDana Kinghttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/DanaKing
I'm voting with the "pretentious" crowd. "Yearning" is a nice word, an artistc word. All he's really going on about was put succinctly by Kurt Vonnegut: The character should always want something, even if it's only a glass of water."<br />
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As for writer's block, I don't argue that it's not real, but I'm sticking with Stephen King's (I think) definition: "Writer's block is what happens when you're trying to be a better writer than you are." That's not pejorative; everyone has days when things are…
I'm voting with the "pretentious" crowd. "Yearning" is a nice word, an artistc word. All he's really going on about was put succinctly by Kurt Vonnegut: The character should always want something, even if it's only a glass of water."<br />
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As for writer's block, I don't argue that it's not real, but I'm sticking with Stephen King's (I think) definition: "Writer's block is what happens when you're trying to be a better writer than you are." That's not pejorative; everyone has days when things are easier than others: writers, baseball pitchers, musicians, ditch diggers. Trying to write beyond what you're capable of AT THAT TIME is as good a definition of writer's block as I can think of. People who haven't written for a year or more because they claim to have writer's block pretty much waive the right to be called writers. Hi Pepper,
Maybe the tempora…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-07-23:537324:Comment:1530472008-07-23T15:55:29.467ZJude Hardinhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/festus
Hi Pepper,<br />
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Maybe the temporary inability to cognitively create language on a page is the symptom of an underlying condition, but I don't think what we typically refer to as <i>writer's block</i> is a diagnosis in and of itself. Depression is real, and treatable. Bipolar disorder is real, and treatable. Allergy attacks, of course...<br />
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Writing is an art, but it's also a business. If it's your job, then you figure out a way to get the job done. If you're sick and you can't work, you seek…
Hi Pepper,<br />
<br />
Maybe the temporary inability to cognitively create language on a page is the symptom of an underlying condition, but I don't think what we typically refer to as <i>writer's block</i> is a diagnosis in and of itself. Depression is real, and treatable. Bipolar disorder is real, and treatable. Allergy attacks, of course...<br />
<br />
Writing is an art, but it's also a business. If it's your job, then you figure out a way to get the job done. If you're sick and you can't work, you seek treatment. Moping around with a mythical condition called writer's block ain't gonna put food on the table, no way no how.