What Is Lean Prose? - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T07:14:11Zhttp://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/537324:Topic:154583?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A154673&feed=yes&xn_auth=noTo me, "muscular" suggests po…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-12:537324:Comment:1554082008-08-12T15:55:06.560ZGerald Sohttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/gerald986
To me, "muscular" suggests power, forcefulness. Lean prose isn't necessarily so charged. I don't think this sort of power can be achieved simply by adjectives or word choice ("arduous, hulking, strenuous, mammoth") independent of what a story is trying to achieve. Muscular prose works best in stories with a lot of dramatic moments that require powerful word choice.
To me, "muscular" suggests power, forcefulness. Lean prose isn't necessarily so charged. I don't think this sort of power can be achieved simply by adjectives or word choice ("arduous, hulking, strenuous, mammoth") independent of what a story is trying to achieve. Muscular prose works best in stories with a lot of dramatic moments that require powerful word choice. I'm always been fascinated wh…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-12:537324:Comment:1553942008-08-12T15:33:21.671Zanabrazilhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/anabrazil
I'm always been fascinated when fiction is described as "muscular". (Wish I had some examples.) And now I wonder...when talking about writing, is "muscular" the same as "lean"?<br />
Or is "muscular" used to describe the content of the writing rather than the shaping of it? Or am I totally off-base?<br />
ps. I always thought it would be cool to be described as a writer of "muscular fiction"......
I'm always been fascinated when fiction is described as "muscular". (Wish I had some examples.) And now I wonder...when talking about writing, is "muscular" the same as "lean"?<br />
Or is "muscular" used to describe the content of the writing rather than the shaping of it? Or am I totally off-base?<br />
ps. I always thought it would be cool to be described as a writer of "muscular fiction"...... The opening paragraph of "A C…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-08:537324:Comment:1547502008-08-08T17:53:35.688ZJohn Dishonhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/whiteskwirl
The opening paragraph of "A Clean, Well-Lighted Place" consists of three sentences. All three are compound-complex sentences, and the placement of the dependent clauses is different in each sentence.<br />
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So there's more than one just in that paragraph.
The opening paragraph of "A Clean, Well-Lighted Place" consists of three sentences. All three are compound-complex sentences, and the placement of the dependent clauses is different in each sentence.<br />
<br />
So there's more than one just in that paragraph. Good answer.tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-08:537324:Comment:1547462008-08-08T17:42:52.831ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Good answer.
Good answer. Maybe one. "And," "or," and "…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-08:537324:Comment:1547442008-08-08T17:41:43.729ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Maybe one. "And," "or," and "but" are all coordinating conjunctions (i.e. compound sentence structure). Length is not what makes a sentence complex.<br />
As I said, Hemingway was a journalist by profession.
Maybe one. "And," "or," and "but" are all coordinating conjunctions (i.e. compound sentence structure). Length is not what makes a sentence complex.<br />
As I said, Hemingway was a journalist by profession. Sounds like your question has…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-08:537324:Comment:1547102008-08-08T15:20:48.253ZAngiehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/slackerwriter
Sounds like your question has been answered, if not entirely to your satisfaction, John. Not that that'll stop me from trying a slightly different angle! Yes, lean prose is a sort of stripping down, though that doesn't mean a lack of description - more a matter of dropping in a few succinct descriptions rather than spending paragraphs or pages to describe something. Lean prose doesn't necessarily mean a complete lack of complex sentences, either. I doubt looking for absolutes will be of much…
Sounds like your question has been answered, if not entirely to your satisfaction, John. Not that that'll stop me from trying a slightly different angle! Yes, lean prose is a sort of stripping down, though that doesn't mean a lack of description - more a matter of dropping in a few succinct descriptions rather than spending paragraphs or pages to describe something. Lean prose doesn't necessarily mean a complete lack of complex sentences, either. I doubt looking for absolutes will be of much help here. Most writers are looking for 'just what's necessary and nothing else,' but definitions on what that means in practice will vary from reader to reader and writer to writer.<br />
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I generally prefer to read and write lean, but of the two authors you referenced, I'd pick Faulkner over Hemingway any day. For the purposes of crime fiction, I like action oriented, stripped down writing - I think of it as the raw power/passion of the garage band versus a symphony. Both have their place, but for me it's a matter of "less is more." And yet, I also love James Sallis's work and he tends to be much more complex in his writing style and story structure.<br />
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How's that for clear as mud?! Hemingway uses complex senten…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-08:537324:Comment:1546942008-08-08T14:29:07.812ZJohn Dishonhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/whiteskwirl
Hemingway uses complex sentences too. For proof, you can check the examples I quoted above. There's some in there. And Hemingway's prose doesn't read anything like journalistic writing.
Hemingway uses complex sentences too. For proof, you can check the examples I quoted above. There's some in there. And Hemingway's prose doesn't read anything like journalistic writing. Hemingway has probably influe…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-08:537324:Comment:1546802008-08-08T13:44:43.130ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Hemingway has probably influenced genre writing more than any other literary novelist. He was a journalist. Journalistic reporting tends to be "lean." If Hemingway's sentences are longer that what we've become used to in Ellroy et al., then that is because he uses compound sentences, which merely string together simple sentences with "and." Faulkner uses complex sentences, that is a main clause with multiple dependent clauses that qualify and define it. Clearly, it's easier to read a simple or…
Hemingway has probably influenced genre writing more than any other literary novelist. He was a journalist. Journalistic reporting tends to be "lean." If Hemingway's sentences are longer that what we've become used to in Ellroy et al., then that is because he uses compound sentences, which merely string together simple sentences with "and." Faulkner uses complex sentences, that is a main clause with multiple dependent clauses that qualify and define it. Clearly, it's easier to read a simple or compound sentence than a complex one, which requires close attention and thought.<br />
Genre writers have to decide for themselves what audience they want to reach. My idea of lean prose is writ…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-08:537324:Comment:1546732008-08-08T13:04:21.185ZGerald Sohttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/gerald986
My idea of lean prose is writing that does its job most efficiently--the way a lean athlete moves gracefully--affecting the audience more immediately and in exactly the way the writer intends. I don't link it any specific syntax. It depends on what the writer wants to accomplish.<br />
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Lean prose isn't necessarily specific to any writer, either. I've seen many writers use it as a means of characterization. Westlake writes leanly as Richard Stark because master thief Parker is coldly efficient.…
My idea of lean prose is writing that does its job most efficiently--the way a lean athlete moves gracefully--affecting the audience more immediately and in exactly the way the writer intends. I don't link it any specific syntax. It depends on what the writer wants to accomplish.<br />
<br />
Lean prose isn't necessarily specific to any writer, either. I've seen many writers use it as a means of characterization. Westlake writes leanly as Richard Stark because master thief Parker is coldly efficient. Westlake's other books are more meandering. The same can be said about Block's Matt Scudder series versus his other books.<br />
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One would think lean prose would be useful to thriller writers, to keep readers turning pages, but thrillers are often huge tomes, not fast reads. So the question is, then, wha…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-08:537324:Comment:1546412008-08-08T02:41:53.023ZJude Hardinhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/festus
<i>So the question is, then, what characterizes "lean" prose?</i><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J06BU6Fj6Qs"><br />
Here's</a> the recipe. Pay close attention to the "reduce" part. ;)
<i>So the question is, then, what characterizes "lean" prose?</i><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J06BU6Fj6Qs"><br />
Here's</a> the recipe. Pay close attention to the "reduce" part. ;)