It seems I struck a chord when I posted about blatant self-promotion. What I discovered is that a lot of people are confusing BSP with your regular every day, garden-variety self-promotion -- something that we all must and do engage in.

BSP, however, is called Blatant self-promotion because of its in-your-face, take no prisoners nature. Yes, most of us are guilty of it once in awhile, but there are also those who can't seem to post a comment on a blog or a forum anywhere without shamelessly promoting their work. Much of this is outright spam -- ignoring or paying little attention to the subject at hand, or going to truly torturous lengths to tie their "product" to the discussion.

And, as many comments here have indicated, such BSP is not appreciated by those who are interested in having a legitimate discussion.

Please don't misunderstand me. Again, self-promotion is a VITAL part of what we writers do.

But BSP is a different thing entirely.

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Yep. Barbara is a big distraction.
Rob, where does the Lost Dog bomber hat fit? Yay? Nay? Help a shameless hussy out!
good, clean, nerdy fun?
I agree Anne,

But it's saturday night, cooked a big bowl of chilli, drank half a bottle of red wine and too 'chilled out' to comment further

;-)

Phew been a hard week, and a tough one ahead, thankfully I have some great books to escape to

Ali
wine and a big bowl of chili will fix anything.

hah. i typed big bowl of blow. my bad.
hehe
You are certainly welcome to have whatever opinion you like. However, if you actually read the info on the main page about crimespace, I think you'll see that crimespace is NOT intended as a promotional platform. Your opinion simply does not jive with the stated intention of crimespace and is partly why there are clear guidelines about self-promotion listed under the FAQ section.

Why on earth another promotional internet platform is needed is beyond me. There are already a multitude of options online for that (personal blogs, websites, MySpace, listservs, etc.). There are, however, not many venues for writers and readers to socialize where they are not bombarded with BSP.

I am a writer and a reader. I do want to see how the metaphorical sausage is made. I want to hear what other writers and readers (especially of crime fiction) are thinking about and working on. If it becomes just another promotional tool, then I'm outie. I have better uses of my limited procrastination time!
Absolutely, Jon. Mentioning your books, short stories, whatever on your page, in your blog posts and chatter walls is totally okay. And I like visiting pages and seeing what folks are up to - what they're reading and writing. I've bought 4 books in the past week because I was reminded of writers I've been meaning to check out.

My issue is exactly what I said above. The intention behind crimespace is to provide a place for crime fic. writers & readers to meet and chat. If you see someone interesting & want to go hang out in their living room (personal page), then you'd expect to hear a bit more about what they're up to (books out, short stories pub'd, etc.).

What crimespace is NOT, is a place set up strictly as a promotional tool to sell books to readers. We've got plenty of venues for that already. Are people chatting on crimespace and then doing business together? You bet. Do I have a problem with that? Hell, no.

I get the impression that some folks jumped in without reading the basic info. As long as people take a minute to check out the FAQs on the main page, I don't think we'll have a big problem worrying about what's okay and what's not so very. The guidelines are pretty simple and low-key.

And hey, I'm not the freakin' hall monitor. You can have whatever opinion you want. I'm just pointing out what the intended function is and where to find the ground rules for this uber-cool crime fic. site. Really, that's all I'm sayin'.
Robin made the point I had in mind while reading the replies, that the term BSP is used on DorothyL in a tongue-in-cheek, even affectionate way for self-referential (or book-referential) comments that fall somewhere between the DL moderators' rigorous standards and the outright obnoxious. Example (purely fictional): a regular poster on topics of general interest posts, "You'll have to forgive me a little BSP here: my book was just optioned by a Hollywood studio, they're talking about Brad Pitt for my protagonist, and I'm about to burst with excitement." This writer wouldn't be trying to beat the competition for 3000 DLers' mystery dollars but genuinely eager to share the big news with her online friends.
Liz, that's a good example of what most people would think was fine. We want to hear about new books coming out, or books being optioned for a film. What some of us don't want is the twisting round of topics to fit BSP -- usually by the same offenders: "Joe Bloggs asked about crime novels that feature deep-sea fishermen. My book When the Chips are Down features a scene where the hero eats fish and chips outside the cinema." :O)
I think BSP goes beyond just promoting your book. You, as the author, are the product as well. I have heard of people avoiding panels because of a single person on it, not buying a magazine or an anthology because someone they can’t stand is in it.

I have forgiveness for new author who BSP because they don’t know better. They just need guidance and they will see that is not the right way to get their name out there,

My concern is with entitlement BSP.

I am aware for example of authors canceling out of a conference because they didn’t get on a panel or angry because they are not getting on the "right" panel or because they got in trouble for displaying their book while they are on the panel even though they were told not to.

I’ve also read interviews where the author is so obnoxious and self-important that I just want to find them and punch them.

Earth to author, you’re not that great.

I have a simple way to tell if you are an annoying self-promoting butthead. It is a simple point system. Google yourself and score what you see in the following ways:

-1 points for you talking about how in love are with yourself
0 points for you talking about your book
5 points for friends talking about you and how great you are.
10 points for friends who are talking about your book, short story, etc.
15 points for you talking about your book in an interview
25 points for reviews by third parties talking about your book, short story, etc.
50 points for a reader who you don’t know talking about your book, short story, etc.

So if you look at your top 20 hits and you have less than 100 points, its time to hit BSP anonymous.

The more distant the promotion is from you, the more valid it is.
I agree, and while I agree new authors can be cut a bit of slack, I actually don't find them to the be the worst. For example, on one listserv I'm on there's an author who has several books to their credit who seems to bring almost every subject back to their books. If I named names the worst offenders, in my opinion, would not be new authors, although there are some that are tiresome. But as I said before, bsp is in the eye of the beholder. What's too much for one may not even phase another...

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