Helping others "get published" - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T10:10:19Zhttp://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/537324:Topic:20271?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A20633&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI think the chick analogy is…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-04-10:537324:Comment:217152007-04-10T14:45:10.251ZAlexandra Sokoloffhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/AXSokoloff
I think the chick analogy is fairly apt. I always thought of the road to Hollywood and/or publishing as having a series of gates that you have to negotiate - it's a necessary weeding-out process - otherwise we'd see exponentially more junk out there than we already do. It's not fair or an even playing field, but some of the challenges really are there for a reason.<br />
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In Hollywood it's absolutely taboo to ask another writer to set you up with her or his agent. It is just Not Done. I've noticed in…
I think the chick analogy is fairly apt. I always thought of the road to Hollywood and/or publishing as having a series of gates that you have to negotiate - it's a necessary weeding-out process - otherwise we'd see exponentially more junk out there than we already do. It's not fair or an even playing field, but some of the challenges really are there for a reason.<br />
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In Hollywood it's absolutely taboo to ask another writer to set you up with her or his agent. It is just Not Done. I've noticed in publishing that it's only been the most inexperienced people (and always people who don't know me from Adam's housecat) who come right out and ask if I'll pass their work on to my agent. <br />
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Asking for too much seems to be the mark of people who haven't done their homework. ...and you see. I was in this…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-04-09:537324:Comment:210862007-04-09T19:03:34.609ZRick Bylinahttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Anilyb
...and you see. I was in this egg, getting a headache from bashing my beak against the shell, when this light shined in. Did I break the shell myself? Did someone help me? Was it God? Did it matter how the light arrived?<br />
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No one needs a handout; everyone can use a hand up. Helping someone who's ready to connect to the right person in the publishing industry is just a step in the writing process no different than helping them with their writing craft. And if they're not ready for that next…
...and you see. I was in this egg, getting a headache from bashing my beak against the shell, when this light shined in. Did I break the shell myself? Did someone help me? Was it God? Did it matter how the light arrived? <br />
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No one needs a handout; everyone can use a hand up. Helping someone who's ready to connect to the right person in the publishing industry is just a step in the writing process no different than helping them with their writing craft. And if they're not ready for that next step, they're not ready, and as painful as it might be to hear or deliver that message, the writer should be told the honest truth about it and not be given platitudes or a stone cold stare. <br />
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...it didn't matter, but it felt good to see some light. I pecked harder. I'm with you, Pari. I've intr…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-04-09:537324:Comment:209842007-04-09T16:53:50.266ZBill Cameronhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/bcameron
I'm with you, Pari. I've introduced exactly one person to my own agent, and I only did so after asking her permission first. That was very important to me -- respecting her time enough to make sure she even wanted me to send someone her way before I did so.<br />
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Mostly I feel like I want to do anything I can to help, but I have to keep a firm grip on reality. I'm still so new it's not like anyone's beating down my door asking for help, and when they do, often the best help I can often is pointing…
I'm with you, Pari. I've introduced exactly one person to my own agent, and I only did so after asking her permission first. That was very important to me -- respecting her time enough to make sure she even wanted me to send someone her way before I did so.<br />
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Mostly I feel like I want to do anything I can to help, but I have to keep a firm grip on reality. I'm still so new it's not like anyone's beating down my door asking for help, and when they do, often the best help I can often is pointing folks in the direction of resources they can use to help themselves. "Pay it forward."
Another wa…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-04-09:537324:Comment:209162007-04-09T13:50:18.954ZTribehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/TribeX
"Pay it forward."<br />
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Another way of looking at it is "What goes around, comes around." Seriously though, the more I scan this thread and the original posting the more I think that it's a no-brainer what the answer is.
"Pay it forward."<br />
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Another way of looking at it is "What goes around, comes around." Seriously though, the more I scan this thread and the original posting the more I think that it's a no-brainer what the answer is. I think there are two very di…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-04-09:537324:Comment:209022007-04-09T13:17:01.357ZIain Rowanhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/irowan
I think there are two very different things mixed up here: established writers offering their help to people who are effectively their friends, and whose work they like, and people tapping up established writers they barely know in the hope of an introduction. I think the two are very different things, and wouldn't do the latter, but also wouldn't hesitate to take advantage of the former if it were freely offered. But the distinction between offers and requests is very important distinction…
I think there are two very different things mixed up here: established writers offering their help to people who are effectively their friends, and whose work they like, and people tapping up established writers they barely know in the hope of an introduction. I think the two are very different things, and wouldn't do the latter, but also wouldn't hesitate to take advantage of the former if it were freely offered. But the distinction between offers and requests is very important distinction here. I've been amazed and touched by how generous other writers (not just in the crime genre) have been to me (and others), and I hope I have the opportunity to pay that back some day.<br />
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I don't think it's about shyness, it's simply the numbers game, a way of getting through this industry's particular hoops - like editors who don't take unagented submissions, for example. Wanting to short-cut the whole submission process and have your ms read, and read thoroughly, I don't think weakens you as a writer, nor does it speak to how effectively you might market your work.<br />
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I wonder: if any of us were in the position where well-respected writer X read our ms, liked it, and said "I love this, would you like an introduction to my agent/editor?", would we say no thanks, I'd rather send it through the slush? I wouldn't. Whether a story of mine sells or doesn't is, in the end, going to be down to the quality of my writing, and that's all down to me. I can learn from others, take advice from others, but the words on the page come from me, and that's what is important. Anything else, it's just the mechanics of the business. Sorry, but I don't think you…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-04-09:537324:Comment:208872007-04-09T12:47:49.457ZDianne Dayhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/dianneday
Sorry, but I don't think you can generalize from chickens to people. Since we are here on Crimespace, what we're talking about is people who want to read and write and publish crime novels, and this group is generally called "the mystery community". The mystery community is known in the business, by editors and agents and all the various people on the producing and selling end, as being a particularly tight, supportive bunch. I think networking is the way to go, and authors who by the nature of…
Sorry, but I don't think you can generalize from chickens to people. Since we are here on Crimespace, what we're talking about is people who want to read and write and publish crime novels, and this group is generally called "the mystery community". The mystery community is known in the business, by editors and agents and all the various people on the producing and selling end, as being a particularly tight, supportive bunch. I think networking is the way to go, and authors who by the nature of our work spend so much time alone need the people skills. Pushing ahead in isolation may be noble, or something, but accepting help is not going to weaken a newbie in the future. Hi Newt - I like your analogy…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-04-09:537324:Comment:208742007-04-09T12:30:51.478ZYang-May Ooihttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/fusionview
Hi Newt - I like your analogy with the chicks and the idea of the survival of the fittest for writers. When my first novel was published, a lot of acquaintances suddenly claimed to be great friends, wanting to take me out to lunch etc and talk about the book they were writing and could I help them get published please... I imagine that this is not an uncommon scenario for other writers, too! I decided to write a series of posts on Getting Published on my blog and now refer writers to the advice…
Hi Newt - I like your analogy with the chicks and the idea of the survival of the fittest for writers. When my first novel was published, a lot of acquaintances suddenly claimed to be great friends, wanting to take me out to lunch etc and talk about the book they were writing and could I help them get published please... I imagine that this is not an uncommon scenario for other writers, too! I decided to write a series of posts on Getting Published on my blog and now refer writers to the advice I give there - see <a href="http://www.fusionview.co.uk/category/getting-published/">http://www.fusionview.co.uk/category/getting-published/</a>. A creative writing teacher based in Malaysia gives some hilarious examples on her blog of wannabe writers approaching her to get their books (which are sometimes non-existent as yet) published - see <a href="http://www.fusionview.co.uk/category/getting-published/">http://www.fusionview.co.uk/category/getting-published/</a>. I think I err on the side of…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-04-08:537324:Comment:206332007-04-08T22:44:09.101ZPari Noskin Taicherthttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/PariNT
I think I err on the side of encouragement and help. To me, it's important to pass on the kindnesses that I've received. That said, I rarely offer to contact my agent on anyone's behalf, and I never let someone use my name as in, "Pari suggested I contact you," unless I've read his or her writing and feel strongly about it. To me, that's a question of personal integrity. Just as I won't blurb a book unless I really, truly LOVE it.<br />
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But there are scads of ways we can new writers and offer hope…
I think I err on the side of encouragement and help. To me, it's important to pass on the kindnesses that I've received. That said, I rarely offer to contact my agent on anyone's behalf, and I never let someone use my name as in, "Pari suggested I contact you," unless I've read his or her writing and feel strongly about it. To me, that's a question of personal integrity. Just as I won't blurb a book unless I really, truly LOVE it. <br />
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But there are scads of ways we can new writers and offer hope along with reality-checks. One of the main things I do is point people to resources about which they have been unaware such as Preditors and Editors or some of the listservs. If I meet a newbie at a con and he or she follows up with questions, I try to answer them honestly. <br />
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Yeah, this all takes time, but it just feels like the right thing to do. Here's my unsolicited view on…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-04-08:537324:Comment:205882007-04-08T21:13:21.465ZTribehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/TribeX
Here's my unsolicited view on this. As I gather from this, it'll somehow make me a better person (or writer or whatever) if I do the mechanics of getting published (hustling the agents, etc.) on my lonesome, I'll be somehow better for it.<br />
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Well, I've never been a big believer in that whole "I-won't-help-you-for-your-own-good" schtick. Personally, I think it's bullshit (no offense to Newt, and no reflection on him at all). If I were in a position to help a friend, I would...screw that nonsense…
Here's my unsolicited view on this. As I gather from this, it'll somehow make me a better person (or writer or whatever) if I do the mechanics of getting published (hustling the agents, etc.) on my lonesome, I'll be somehow better for it. <br />
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Well, I've never been a big believer in that whole "I-won't-help-you-for-your-own-good" schtick. Personally, I think it's bullshit (no offense to Newt, and no reflection on him at all). If I were in a position to help a friend, I would...screw that nonsense of not helping him or her because she'll be a better person for it.<br />
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Having said that, on the other hand, I would never ask a friend to forward a manuscript or put in a good word for me with a publisher or an agent. That's a pretty hefty favor to ask, and it puts a friend in a really uncomfortable position...to have to vouch for me. It's sort of like asking a wealthy friend to co-sign a loan for me. What a great discussion... th…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-04-08:537324:Comment:205392007-04-08T19:06:47.997ZRob Sidershttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/52novels
What a great discussion... thanks everyone!<br />
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I consider myself a toddler where all this stuff is concerned, so it never really dawned me to be so forward to ask someone I don't know all that well for this kind of help. Maybe it's the Midwestern values I was raised with. Maybe I'm just a rube.<br />
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Don't get me wrong. I understand the value of friendships and having a network based on those friendships. That's something altogether different. But "helping me get published" has nothing at all to do…
What a great discussion... thanks everyone!<br />
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I consider myself a toddler where all this stuff is concerned, so it never really dawned me to be so forward to ask someone I don't know all that well for this kind of help. Maybe it's the Midwestern values I was raised with. Maybe I'm just a rube.<br />
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Don't get me wrong. I understand the value of friendships and having a network based on those friendships. That's something altogether different. But "helping me get published" has nothing at all to do with introducing me to an agent or publisher--especially if it comes at the expense of the merit of my work. <br />
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To me this seems pretty simple and can't fathom why others would even want to sidestep that, let alone actually attempt it.