Traditional Mystery--Is it on life support or just needing a face lift? - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T15:32:53Zhttp://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/537324:Topic:34536?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A34956&feed=yes&xn_auth=noOkay, John---I gotta ask. I'm…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-14:537324:Comment:365602007-05-14T14:54:51.873ZDennis Leppanenhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/TheWarbler
Okay, John---I gotta ask. <i>I'm a cross-gender writer,</i><br />
<br />
Does this mean? You write as John Anchor when dressed like in your picture---then don the bra & panties and write as (Bee-Jay)?<br />
<br />
Ha! Just kidding, I couldn't pass on it. Sorry.<br />
<br />
Dennis
Okay, John---I gotta ask. <i>I'm a cross-gender writer,</i><br />
<br />
Does this mean? You write as John Anchor when dressed like in your picture---then don the bra & panties and write as (Bee-Jay)?<br />
<br />
Ha! Just kidding, I couldn't pass on it. Sorry.<br />
<br />
Dennis Australia doesn't have specia…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-14:537324:Comment:362342007-05-14T01:35:06.585ZDaniel Hatadihttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/danielhatadi
Australia doesn't have specialist book stores like the US, so every store I go to has a Crime Fiction section just as Sandra mentioned. Maybe that's why I created Crimespace as a crime fiction network. I don't really see as much of the separation between mystery/suspense/thriller/procedural. Just different crime fiction for different reading moods.<br />
<br />
He he. Come to Australia, and live the dream.
Australia doesn't have specialist book stores like the US, so every store I go to has a Crime Fiction section just as Sandra mentioned. Maybe that's why I created Crimespace as a crime fiction network. I don't really see as much of the separation between mystery/suspense/thriller/procedural. Just different crime fiction for different reading moods.<br />
<br />
He he. Come to Australia, and live the dream. LOL--I used to live in WI (Ma…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-13:537324:Comment:358342007-05-13T12:46:37.465ZJordan Danehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JordanDane
LOL--I used to live in WI (Madison) for 4 yrs and in Alaska for 10. I know about winter and construction seasons.<br />
<br />
And your point about knowing too much is a good one. For many books I read, I feel like I'm peeking behind the curtain of the Great Oz, privvy to all his secrets and plot devices. But first and foremost, I'm a reader who loves to be drawn in. And if another author makes me forget I'm a writer, then I've probably found a keeper.<br />
<br />
Personally, my biggest mystery these days is how to…
LOL--I used to live in WI (Madison) for 4 yrs and in Alaska for 10. I know about winter and construction seasons.<br />
<br />
And your point about knowing too much is a good one. For many books I read, I feel like I'm peeking behind the curtain of the Great Oz, privvy to all his secrets and plot devices. But first and foremost, I'm a reader who loves to be drawn in. And if another author makes me forget I'm a writer, then I've probably found a keeper.<br />
<br />
Personally, my biggest mystery these days is how to operate the damned fancy TV my hubby bought. Whatever happened to the damned on off button? And when did we ever get to be a three remote family--to operate one TV? Actually, now that I'm thinking about it---Maybe husbands need to come with instructions. I think readers have plenty o…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-13:537324:Comment:357882007-05-13T04:57:20.516ZKaryn J. Powershttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/karyning
I think readers have plenty of mystery in their daily lives. We're chock full of mysteries. I've just about figured out all the gadgetry of my new cell phone, but it will be outdated in three months. There are two seasons in Wisconsin: Winter and Construction. Orange barrels and detours are more comforting to local drivers than long stretches of uninterupted concrete and curbing. So I think that may contribute to the Mork-on-Crank analogy that Jordan made. I wonder if we think we know too damn…
I think readers have plenty of mystery in their daily lives. We're chock full of mysteries. I've just about figured out all the gadgetry of my new cell phone, but it will be outdated in three months. There are two seasons in Wisconsin: Winter and Construction. Orange barrels and detours are more comforting to local drivers than long stretches of uninterupted concrete and curbing. So I think that may contribute to the Mork-on-Crank analogy that Jordan made. I wonder if we think we know too damn much for our own good and want other elements in a story to keep us from flipping to the last chapter and going, "Hah, I knew it all along; gotta go, See ya." Dan Brown doesn't have to car…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-12:537324:Comment:355142007-05-12T18:28:16.018ZJordan Danehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JordanDane
Dan Brown doesn't have to care whether his next book is successful or not. He's made it so big on the Code. Yet, can you imagine the pressure to even follow that book? I tend to agree with your take on the cabbage patch doll theory for him.<br />
<br />
Jeff had talked about writing the books you love to write. And that's a great point. But I also find I like the challenge of writing something I've never done or wouldn't necessarily pursue unless it's set before me on a dare. Then I get my Irish stubborn…
Dan Brown doesn't have to care whether his next book is successful or not. He's made it so big on the Code. Yet, can you imagine the pressure to even follow that book? I tend to agree with your take on the cabbage patch doll theory for him.<br />
<br />
Jeff had talked about writing the books you love to write. And that's a great point. But I also find I like the challenge of writing something I've never done or wouldn't necessarily pursue unless it's set before me on a dare. Then I get my Irish stubborn up and go for it. I'm intrigued by the challenge. Basically, if there is a compelling emotional aspect to the work, I would want to write that story. This discussion has taken a d…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-12:537324:Comment:354942007-05-12T17:55:08.247ZRobin Burcellhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/rburcell67
This discussion has taken a decidedly interesting turn. BTW, Love the music analogy as well, because it really is a good example of the same sort of thing. I have to wonder if this whole trying to stay ahead of the curve (which is in reality, the publishers trying to keep up with the curve--if only we had a crystal ball to determine what they think is around the next corner) has much to do with the ebbs and flows of the changing book biz?<br />
<br />
For instance, the plethora of religious thrillers…
This discussion has taken a decidedly interesting turn. BTW, Love the music analogy as well, because it really is a good example of the same sort of thing. I have to wonder if this whole trying to stay ahead of the curve (which is in reality, the publishers trying to keep up with the curve--if only we had a crystal ball to determine what they think is around the next corner) has much to do with the ebbs and flows of the changing book biz?<br />
<br />
For instance, the plethora of religious thrillers (RTs), AKA people waking up, discovering that they've been the chosen one, raised from birth and trained without their conscious knowledge to carry out the mission that protects the Big Secret that will shake the Vatican to its core--something they only discover when their father, mother, brother is killed in an explosion and whispers the secret on their dying breath. So, right away, the publishers are digging out their stock of Religious Thrillers. (Didn't we just see one of those come from Agent X? Call her up, NOW.) And then the stores are saturated, and like good pop music with a catchy tune, you find you tire of the same ol' same ol' and you switch channels to country, thereby discovering the next BIG THING.<br />
<br />
And of course, too many authors are trying to catch that curve. hey, I've got a great idea about women from Mars, who are able to give birth without a male donor, and on the day that Christ was born, a space ship landed...yada, yada. But by the time they write it, send it out, the market is flooded and the publishers are already catching that next wave, because they have cleared their calendars of every religious thriller out there.<br />
<br />
Of course what happens then is something I've termed the "market correction." We see a shift in what is being published. RTs are out, talking cats are in. (Although in reality, I think, RTs are still in, but they are definitely waning to a degree, shifting to a different sort of thriller.<br />
<br />
The publishers are savvy. When they start to see sales drop, they watch their lists, see what looks like it is about to make a move. Then Wham! They discover that it isn't just talking cats hitting the NYT, it's talking cats with cartoon covers in hot pink. And then you see a gazillion hot pink talking cat covers. (Surely you all noticed the chick lit trend with the cute cartoon covers? Whether chick lit mystery or chick lit romance. Perhaps you didn't notice how long they've actually been on the market?) Because like the books, the covers change, too, to keep up with the market.<br />
<br />
But one thing that doesn't change is the classics. And many bestsellers today won't make the classics of tomorrow. For instance does anyone really think that DaVinci Code will be a top seller fifteen, twenty years from now? Will his name live on like Agatha Christie or Raymond Chandler? I don't think so. I think Code is just another Cabbage Patch Doll or Beanie Baby. Everyone's hot to trot to get them while they're hot, but suddenly they tire and no longer look good on the shelf.<br />
<br />
Traditional mystery is a classic form, they'll always be around, but like someone said, they'll change with the times, the mores, the culture around us. This week is used to correct the glut from last week. Now if someone can tell me what the trend for next week is, I'd appreciate it. I left my crystal ball at the office. I like your music analogy. It…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-12:537324:Comment:354582007-05-12T15:55:48.786ZJordan Danehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JordanDane
I like your music analogy. It's thought provoking. And it makes me appreciate (all the more) the authors who've weathered the storm of marketability over the decades, finding a strong readership as they evolve and still make a good living.<br />
<br />
For the average author who'd like to make a reasonable and sustained income, it may become necessary to understand the marketplace and the trends to stay ahead of the curve. And hopefully, the changing elements to their stories will still appeal to them as…
I like your music analogy. It's thought provoking. And it makes me appreciate (all the more) the authors who've weathered the storm of marketability over the decades, finding a strong readership as they evolve and still make a good living.<br />
<br />
For the average author who'd like to make a reasonable and sustained income, it may become necessary to understand the marketplace and the trends to stay ahead of the curve. And hopefully, the changing elements to their stories will still appeal to them as writers and be satisfying too. The best of both worlds. I think this is an interestin…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-12:537324:Comment:354342007-05-12T15:25:43.345ZEDWARD C MORGANhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/ECMorgan
I think this is an interesting thread.<br />
<br />
Market forces, ebb and flow, the public (reader's/market's) changing taste.<br />
<br />
To me the broad genre of mystery/crime fiction is similar to music. Most styles of music are there, always with some degree of fan base, with greater or lesser degrees of popularity.<br />
<br />
Every few years, something happens. Music evolves and a whole new style is created, a la rock and roll in the 50s.<br />
<br />
Punk rock is a great analagy of what I see in mystery fiction. In the 70s and the…
I think this is an interesting thread.<br />
<br />
Market forces, ebb and flow, the public (reader's/market's) changing taste.<br />
<br />
To me the broad genre of mystery/crime fiction is similar to music. Most styles of music are there, always with some degree of fan base, with greater or lesser degrees of popularity.<br />
<br />
Every few years, something happens. Music evolves and a whole new style is created, a la rock and roll in the 50s.<br />
<br />
Punk rock is a great analagy of what I see in mystery fiction. In the 70s and the very early 80s, there were a lot of bands out there who were really pushing the envelope of music, creating this genre of punk rock. Black Flag, Dead Kennedy's and more really defined punk.<br />
<br />
Time passes, punk is still there, but it isn't as popular.<br />
<br />
In the early 90s though, a couple of new bands emerged, Offspring, and a few others. Their message and sound was a little different, but the anger, angst, frustration and all the emotions that made punk punk are still there.<br />
<br />
fast forward, there's a new punk resurgence. Bands like Dropkick Murphys (an "Irish music" punk band with a bagpipe player), Mighty Mighty Bosstones (who have big horns in their band), Dance Hall Crashers, the whole ska/punk scene. Again, the attitude, anger, frustration, etc. is still there. It's still punk.<br />
<br />
Probably a long rambling irrelevant way to say:<br />
<br />
Someone, through their own creative process and not driven by market forces, will write a book. It will be a traditional mystery, but will be a little different. Maybe it will be setting, maybe something with character, but it will be the thing that reignites the traditional mystery. I think it happens in all creative endeavors at some point.<br />
<br />
When that happens, of course, the market forces will change, and we'll see a hundred thousand spin offs. Jordan,
My comments apply to…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-12:537324:Comment:354092007-05-12T14:45:55.776ZJohn Achorhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/BeeJay
Jordan,<br />
<br />
My comments apply to books I read -- for most part -- mystery, suspense, thriller. My hunch is these notes carry over to other genres as well.<br />
<br />
The shelves are crammed with poor writing efforts. The pages are populated with adverbs, adjectives, and punctuation (!) as a substitute for good writing as well as an abundance of superfluous words like: had, that, just, only, etc. I can think of a thriller by a well known, best selling author where I estimated he could have shaved six pages…
Jordan,<br />
<br />
My comments apply to books I read -- for most part -- mystery, suspense, thriller. My hunch is these notes carry over to other genres as well.<br />
<br />
The shelves are crammed with poor writing efforts. The pages are populated with adverbs, adjectives, and punctuation (!) as a substitute for good writing as well as an abundance of superfluous words like: had, that, just, only, etc. I can think of a thriller by a well known, best selling author where I estimated he could have shaved six pages off his novel by eliminating the word "had" from his vocabulary.<br />
<br />
I'm a cross-gender writer, but I don't think this counts as a discussion stirrer.<br />
<br />
I sure hope mystery fiction is on the rise, I have two in the mill I'm attempting to market.<br />
<br />
Cheers,<br />
John Achor (BeeJay) Interesting points, Barb. And…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-12:537324:Comment:353942007-05-12T14:20:51.746ZJordan Danehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JordanDane
Interesting points, Barb. And there's this strange fascination the public has these days with anything paranormal. You've seen it on TV and in movies too. It's filtered into all writing genres.<br />
<br />
Another hot genre these days is Young Adult (YA)--any subgenre including mystery. Maybe the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew after a face lift. This is another market for mystery writers. And I like the fact that younger readers are loving them. Gives me hope they'll turn into adults who love to read…
Interesting points, Barb. And there's this strange fascination the public has these days with anything paranormal. You've seen it on TV and in movies too. It's filtered into all writing genres.<br />
<br />
Another hot genre these days is Young Adult (YA)--any subgenre including mystery. Maybe the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew after a face lift. This is another market for mystery writers. And I like the fact that younger readers are loving them. Gives me hope they'll turn into adults who love to read period.<br />
<br />
Until I got onto MySpace and noticed the young avid readers out there, I had thought the traditional book in print would be a hard sell in this age bracket, but not so from what I've seen.