The amazon Myth - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T07:44:20Zhttp://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/537324:Topic:35814?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A41394&xg_raw_resources=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI'm really late finding this…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-31:537324:Comment:452092007-05-31T22:02:37.878ZDianne Dayhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/dianneday
I'm really late finding this discussion, but that Walmart number is staggerging. A real eye-opener!<br />
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And it's proving to me, too, how extremely savvy Sarah Weinman is. Much appreciated.<br />
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Dianne
I'm really late finding this discussion, but that Walmart number is staggerging. A real eye-opener!<br />
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And it's proving to me, too, how extremely savvy Sarah Weinman is. Much appreciated.<br />
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Dianne The figures Karen reposted ar…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-20:537324:Comment:424392007-05-20T12:34:38.537ZSarah Weinmanhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/sarahweinman
The figures Karen reposted are a couple of years old, and I suspect the skew has changed even more - but if so, it's weighted *even more* towards Wal-Mart and CostCo and away from the chains. Amazon might be up, but not so much.<br />
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And yes, it's only one author's opening weeks figures, enough to invite commentary but not conclude anything definitive from. But the point I was trying to make in publishing them (with said author's permission) is that the Amazon obsession for authors is a pointless…
The figures Karen reposted are a couple of years old, and I suspect the skew has changed even more - but if so, it's weighted *even more* towards Wal-Mart and CostCo and away from the chains. Amazon might be up, but not so much.<br />
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And yes, it's only one author's opening weeks figures, enough to invite commentary but not conclude anything definitive from. But the point I was trying to make in publishing them (with said author's permission) is that the Amazon obsession for authors is a pointless one. Even when rankings go up that still, maybe, reflects sales of anywhere from 5 to 100 books. And if it "goes down" it's more because other books are taking over for whatever reason. And as Karen points out again, the Costco/Wal-Mart figures wouldn't necessarily apply to midlisters a great deal...but chains and independent sales will still trump Amazon's by a large margin. Yeah, these are U.S. figures…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-19:537324:Comment:413942007-05-19T03:03:55.934ZKaren Dionnehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/KarenDionne
Yeah, these are U.S. figures for a best-selling thriller author, so it's hard to extrapolate what they might mean for a mid-list author, or for an author in the U.K.<br />
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Most U.S. authors won't see their books in Costco or Wal-Mart/Sam's Club. From what I've observed watching dozens of authors get published at Backspace over the past three years, only a small percentage even see their books picked up by Target -<br />
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Still, according to the numbers that are left (Barnes and Noble, Waldenbooks, and…
Yeah, these are U.S. figures for a best-selling thriller author, so it's hard to extrapolate what they might mean for a mid-list author, or for an author in the U.K.<br />
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Most U.S. authors won't see their books in Costco or Wal-Mart/Sam's Club. From what I've observed watching dozens of authors get published at Backspace over the past three years, only a small percentage even see their books picked up by Target -<br />
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Still, according to the numbers that are left (Barnes and Noble, Waldenbooks, and Borders), that still leaves amazon sales at a fraction of the regular bookstores' total - approximately 320 to 13,000 - about 2.5%, if my calculations are corrent (which they may well NOT be - I am SO not a numbers person . . .)<br />
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I still think that any way you look at it, amazon sales are only a tiny fraction of the whole. Regarding Anne's comment - maybe your amazon ranking goes down after a bad review goes up, but within the insular world of amazon, maybe it doesn't matter? I've noticed that once a bad…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-19:537324:Comment:412962007-05-19T02:04:13.337ZAnne Frasierhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/annefrasier
I've noticed that once a bad review goes up my ranking gets bad and stays bad until a new review goes up.
I've noticed that once a bad review goes up my ranking gets bad and stays bad until a new review goes up. BUT - does the amazon myth on…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-18:537324:Comment:403962007-05-18T08:43:14.666ZLaura Roothttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/mallard
BUT - does the amazon myth only apply to bestsellers? In the UK, Walmart/Asda carries a very limited range of books, but those it does carry (usual best sellers) will be heavily discounted - reduced from £7.99/£6.99 to £3.73 in paperback, usually (but not absolutely always) cheaper than amazon. Which is why a lot of people buy best sellers from Walmart! But for anything less popular, Walmart won't stock it, and Amazon will probably offer the best deal.
BUT - does the amazon myth only apply to bestsellers? In the UK, Walmart/Asda carries a very limited range of books, but those it does carry (usual best sellers) will be heavily discounted - reduced from £7.99/£6.99 to £3.73 in paperback, usually (but not absolutely always) cheaper than amazon. Which is why a lot of people buy best sellers from Walmart! But for anything less popular, Walmart won't stock it, and Amazon will probably offer the best deal. That's what I was wondering.…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-15:537324:Comment:374412007-05-15T15:36:52.854Znorbyhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/norby871
That's what I was wondering. I can understand the temptation to obsess about what the sales are at each outlet, but if you know that a certain retail option is usually lower for most authors, then it isn't worth stressing yourself more than you already are.<br />
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I know I don't look at book rankings-I go looking for the books I want or an author I'm looking for or, like for Mother's Day, something I think someone will like. I couldn't give a flip what they're ranked.<br />
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It's odd that used book sales…
That's what I was wondering. I can understand the temptation to obsess about what the sales are at each outlet, but if you know that a certain retail option is usually lower for most authors, then it isn't worth stressing yourself more than you already are.<br />
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I know I don't look at book rankings-I go looking for the books I want or an author I'm looking for or, like for Mother's Day, something I think someone will like. I couldn't give a flip what they're ranked.<br />
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It's odd that used book sales would be counted with new book sales considering that used books are typically sold by secondary sellers through the marketplace (something I rarely, if ever, use). I guess a sold book is a sold book. Hi, Norby -
There's nothing…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-15:537324:Comment:372572007-05-15T12:28:30.792ZKaren Dionnehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/KarenDionne
Hi, Norby -<br />
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There's nothing wrong with buying books from amazon - I do too! What I'm talking about here is what happens when new writers obsess over their ranking on amazon, thinking (erroneously, I believe), that the ranking is a reflection of how well their book is doing as a whole. Since amazon sales make up just a small fraction of a particular book's overall sales, it's my opinion that authors shouldn't concern themselves at all with their amazon rank. A lot has been written about how a…
Hi, Norby -<br />
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There's nothing wrong with buying books from amazon - I do too! What I'm talking about here is what happens when new writers obsess over their ranking on amazon, thinking (erroneously, I believe), that the ranking is a reflection of how well their book is doing as a whole. Since amazon sales make up just a small fraction of a particular book's overall sales, it's my opinion that authors shouldn't concern themselves at all with their amazon rank. A lot has been written about how a single sale can drastically raise the rank - which to me, lends support to the idea that amazon.com isn't a significant factor in overall sales.<br />
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Here's an excerpt from a <a href="http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB117459402867645874-eZqZTRCwfaC1qjChzgaWpjSb1m8_20080321.html"><b>Wall Street Journal article</b></a>:<br />
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"Amazon says little about how it calculates its rankings, though scholars and publishers have attempted to reverse-engineer the system to determine how a sales ranking translates into actual sales. One major quirk: Used and new book sales are counted equally. So an author anxious about his sales ranking could put a few dozen of his books for sale for a penny apiece and ask a friend to buy them all.<br />
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"This all adds up to numbers that are ubiquitous, closely watched -- and of dubious value. The targeted marketing campaigns contribute volatility to sales-ranking numbers that are inherently unstable. Outside the top 1% or so of books, few sell multiple copies a day, so little separates books with rankings tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands, apart. Morris Rosenthal, an author and publisher based in Springfield, Mass., who has studied the Amazon charts, says a day without a sale can send a book ranked 10,000 to as low as 50,000."<br />
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Do readers even pay attention to a book's amazon ranking? I suspect not. And since it's not a true indicator of how well a book is doing in the market, I don't think authors should either, that's all. I guess I'm not entirely cert…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-14:537324:Comment:368352007-05-14T21:47:58.707Znorbyhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/norby871
I guess I'm not entirely certain what you're saying here. Is it that you shouldn't focus on the fact that Amazon sales numbers are so low? Then I agree-why get yourself upset?<br />
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But there seems to be this undertone that suggests if Amazon sales are so low, why bother with it? Maybe I'm reading it wrong-I hope so, because personally I buy about 95% of my books from Amazon. The closest bookstore in my town is on the other side of town, and it's filled with people who know nothing about mystery…
I guess I'm not entirely certain what you're saying here. Is it that you shouldn't focus on the fact that Amazon sales numbers are so low? Then I agree-why get yourself upset?<br />
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But there seems to be this undertone that suggests if Amazon sales are so low, why bother with it? Maybe I'm reading it wrong-I hope so, because personally I buy about 95% of my books from Amazon. The closest bookstore in my town is on the other side of town, and it's filled with people who know nothing about mystery novels. Not to mention a manager who needs to be taught some basic business skills.<br />
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It's one of the big box stores, and the only other bookstore in town is one of their subsidiaries-not much choice really. So Amazon is my go-to. For books, movies, cameras... Those figures are basically a…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-14:537324:Comment:367142007-05-14T18:58:31.184ZBrianLindenmuthhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/BrianL
Those figures are basically a snapshot that don't necessarily tell the entire picture.<br />
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True the powerhouse nature of a Wal-Mart cannot ever be denied but I think that Amazon's biggest strength lies in their long game. I say that based on one word and one word only.<br />
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Returnability.<br />
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For those that aren't in the book industry its simply the ability of a book seller or distributor to return a product at any time for any reason.<br />
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Now, all of your major players in the book selling industry use…
Those figures are basically a snapshot that don't necessarily tell the entire picture.<br />
<br />
True the powerhouse nature of a Wal-Mart cannot ever be denied but I think that Amazon's biggest strength lies in their long game. I say that based on one word and one word only.<br />
<br />
Returnability.<br />
<br />
For those that aren't in the book industry its simply the ability of a book seller or distributor to return a product at any time for any reason.<br />
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Now, all of your major players in the book selling industry use Returnability to their advantage to offset monies owed. Here's an example: Let's say that there are 1 million dollars of invoices that are currently owed, Company X will look at their inventories and sales trends to see what they have a surplus of and return a large quantity of product for credit. This credit will offset what is owed. Thus they will then pay less for the current invoices.<br />
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These companies do this with the full knowledge that there are no limitations to re-ordering. Meaning that they can return 17,000 copies of book Y one month then turn around and re-order the same title the very next month. It's basically a revolving door of product and money.<br />
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Now, this brief summary leads me to this:<br />
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Amazon has full returnability but hardly ever uses it. If Amazon orders a certain amount of copies of a book they will keep it till it gathers dust in the warehouse.<br />
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Amazon can be an authors best friend much later down the road, especially an author whose titles don't sell a large amount of copies. Long after other stores are telling a book buyer that a particular title is out of print, or a company went bankrupt or it will be a special order or whatever the case may be Amazon will have decent supply amounts for that title. There is also the Independent…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-05-14:537324:Comment:366792007-05-14T17:52:49.019ZBarbara Fisterhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Bfister
There is also the <a href="http://www.mysterybooksellers.com/">Independent Mystery Booksellers Association</a> which has a "find a store near you" feature. There are some great stores that aren't members, but still it's a place to start.<br />
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<a href="http://www.powells.com/">Powell's</a> is another indie that is huge and has a good web presence. Their interviews rock.
There is also the <a href="http://www.mysterybooksellers.com/">Independent Mystery Booksellers Association</a> which has a "find a store near you" feature. There are some great stores that aren't members, but still it's a place to start.<br />
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<a href="http://www.powells.com/">Powell's</a> is another indie that is huge and has a good web presence. Their interviews rock.