Reading, writing and really lame reviews. - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T05:26:24Zhttp://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/537324:Topic:55687?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A55846&feed=yes&xn_auth=noKaren and Margot can both exp…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-20:537324:Comment:562652007-07-20T11:55:35.377ZDavid Terrenoirehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Terrenoire
Karen and Margot can both expect checks in the mail.
Karen and Margot can both expect checks in the mail. Umm, make that "its".tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-19:537324:Comment:561212007-07-19T21:29:36.589ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Umm, make that "its".
Umm, make that "its". This is my first post on this…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-19:537324:Comment:561122007-07-19T21:10:06.352Zstrugglerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/struggler
This is my first post on this forum, thanks to Sandra for the intro. I'm pleased for all the wrong reasons that you make this point Jon because I am now of the view that Amazon are choosing NOT to publish my generally positive review of a recently published novel by a relatively BNA. My Amazon review would have been the first relating to this book not to contain 5 stars; I rarely apply that accolade anyway because to me it suggests 'outstandingly good' as opposed to the more ubiquitous 'very…
This is my first post on this forum, thanks to Sandra for the intro. I'm pleased for all the wrong reasons that you make this point Jon because I am now of the view that Amazon are choosing NOT to publish my generally positive review of a recently published novel by a relatively BNA. My Amazon review would have been the first relating to this book not to contain 5 stars; I rarely apply that accolade anyway because to me it suggests 'outstandingly good' as opposed to the more ubiquitous 'very good'. The novel I refer to was, in my considered judgement, very good (i.e.4 stars) but not really deserving of the highest honour (note the spelling - I'm English). Anyway I feel certain that Amazon are holding back my review during this critical first few weeks of the life of the novel in question simply because it suggests a hint of criticism rather than tongue-on-the-floor adoration. I've submitted my review nine times in nine days, so far hitting a brick wall each time. Yet whenever I review paperbacks (regardless of sentiment) my opinions are published instantly. I've had more than 1000 positive reactions ('helpful votes') to past reviews and I consider myself a pretty objective reader - I don't idolise any single writer and I'll (diplomatically) dish out the downsides if that's how I feel about that particular book. I really think carefully before submitting a plainly negative review because I do recognise the hard work that goes into the writing and publication of even a dead duck. And while I know that the quality and integrity of Amazon reviews in general are well below the accuracy and reliability of more dedicated sources such as this, there's always the draw, insignificant loser such as I am, that on Amazon my words are going to reach the widest possible audience. Only one of my books was hit…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-19:537324:Comment:560592007-07-19T17:58:44.156ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Only one of my books was hit by a couple of malicious reviews. It's sales lag behind the others. Haven't we had this conversation before, John?
Only one of my books was hit by a couple of malicious reviews. It's sales lag behind the others. Haven't we had this conversation before, John? As an author, you'll drive yo…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-19:537324:Comment:558752007-07-19T03:57:02.003ZJude Hardinhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/festus
As an author, you'll drive yourself nuts if you pay attention to Amazon reader reviews. As a reader, you'll drive youself nuts if you pay attention to Amazon reader reviews. So, ultimately, what good are they?<br />
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None, IMHO.<br />
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<i>The good thing about Amazon reviews though, is that they are made by the average reader. These are the majority of people who will be buying your book, so you get to see what the average person thinks of it. These reviewers don't jump on any bandwagons and have no reason…</i>
As an author, you'll drive yourself nuts if you pay attention to Amazon reader reviews. As a reader, you'll drive youself nuts if you pay attention to Amazon reader reviews. So, ultimately, what good are they?<br />
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None, IMHO.<br />
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<i>The good thing about Amazon reviews though, is that they are made by the average reader. These are the majority of people who will be buying your book, so you get to see what the average person thinks of it. These reviewers don't jump on any bandwagons and have no reason to. They just tell as they see it.</i><br />
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I think it's good, and part of our democracy, that the average reader gets to voice his/her opinion. I just don't think it's very wise to change purchasing decisions, or--and this is where it hits home for us writers--editing and content decisions based on criticism from readers who may or may not have a personal agenda. If you do, you'll be chasing your tail till Kingdom Come. That' fair enough, but does t…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-19:537324:Comment:558692007-07-19T03:02:44.615ZJohn Dishonhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/whiteskwirl
That' fair enough, but does that mean that bad reviews shouldn't be allowed? "If you can't say something nice..." is good for you, but if everyone did it then reviews would be useless, because they would all be positive.<br />
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Maybe these good and bad reviewers have an agenda, but does that make their criticism inaccurate or less valuable? You like JA Konrath, so does that mean I should disregard what your praise for the book, simply because I know you're in his corner? Your praise may be…
That' fair enough, but does that mean that bad reviews shouldn't be allowed? "If you can't say something nice..." is good for you, but if everyone did it then reviews would be useless, because they would all be positive.<br />
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Maybe these good and bad reviewers have an agenda, but does that make their criticism inaccurate or less valuable? You like JA Konrath, so does that mean I should disregard what your praise for the book, simply because I know you're in his corner? Your praise may be well-justified, regardless of your opinion of JA Konrath. The same is true for bad reviews and negative feelings for an author.<br />
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You're right though; you do have to consider the source. Now most user reviews on Amazon are unverifiable. I mean, you're not going to know most of the time where that person comes from or what his/her personal biases are, but that shouldn't matter anyway. If I read a scathing review that doesn't give much evidence to support its claims, then I know that this particular review should not be one I base my decision on as to whether to buy the book or not. The same goes for glowing reviews that give little evidence. And I think the average consumer is intelligent enough to do the same.<br />
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The whole agenda thing can work both ways too. A reviewer may have his own agenda (or ax to grind if you will) and post a bad review, but the author could have his own ax to grind. Maybe Bill gets a slew of bad reviews from Amazon and therefore thinks Amazon reviews are worthless and unfair and whatever else. Is that a personal agenda? I think so. Just because Bill got bad reviews, that doesn't necessarily mean that its because the reviewers had it in for Bill. That could be the reason, but it also might not be. It's possible that Bill's book just isn't that good.<br />
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The point is that we don't know for sure. There is more than one reason why a good or bad review can be given, and since its mostly impossible to tell which reason it is, why get so upset about it? If you get upset about it, you might then have your own personal agenda against the reviewers, and then you're no better than they are.<br />
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So whether a review is good or bad, fair or unfair (we could go into a whole other debate about what that means), they should all be there. Jon Loomis's reviews should not have been removed, no matter how scathing they are. It's like what I.J. Parker stated above, you just have to live with it. If you put something out into the public realm, there's no other choice.<br />
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On a lighter note, I had a teacher who published poetry, and I looked up one of his books on Amazon, and his wife had posted a review (I know this because she used her real name). I had already read the book, so the review wouldn't have any affect anyway, but of course I didn't take hers very seriously. So I agree that personal bias in reviews does happen. Of course there are biases ba…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-19:537324:Comment:558522007-07-19T02:02:52.716ZJude Hardinhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/festus
Of course there are biases based on preference. I'm talking about personal biases for or against the author. You don't think some of those great reviews on Amazon are from friends or family members? Some of the bad ones from scorned enemies?<br />
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Come on, John. It's like almost everything else on the internet. You have to consider the source.<br />
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I don't usually write reviews, but I just posted a nice one on JA Konrath's new book <a href="http://judehardin.blogspot.com/">here.</a><br />
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Is it biased? Only…
Of course there are biases based on preference. I'm talking about personal biases for or against the author. You don't think some of those great reviews on Amazon are from friends or family members? Some of the bad ones from scorned enemies?<br />
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Come on, John. It's like almost everything else on the internet. You have to consider the source.<br />
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I don't usually write reviews, but I just posted a nice one on JA Konrath's new book <a href="http://judehardin.blogspot.com/">here.</a><br />
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Is it biased? Only regarding my preferences. While I like Joe and want to see him do well, I wouldn't have written a review if I wasn't truly impressed by the effort. Where fellow writers are concerned, I try to live by "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."<br />
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Not so with some of the online bookstore reviews. Some of those cats obviously have an agenda. How did you determine that ba…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-19:537324:Comment:558472007-07-19T00:39:01.034ZJohn Dishonhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/whiteskwirl
How did you determine that bad reviews affect sales on Amazon?
How did you determine that bad reviews affect sales on Amazon? So even the people who give p…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-19:537324:Comment:558462007-07-19T00:33:19.216ZJohn Dishonhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/whiteskwirl
So even the people who give positive reviews have an ax to grind?<br />
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Do you think you would feel the same way about Amazon reviews if all your reviews had been favorable?
So even the people who give positive reviews have an ax to grind?<br />
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Do you think you would feel the same way about Amazon reviews if all your reviews had been favorable? As soon as you form an opinio…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-19:537324:Comment:558452007-07-19T00:31:27.924ZJohn Dishonhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/whiteskwirl
As soon as you form an opinion on a book, be it good or bad, you are already biased, regardless of the reason. I favor a certain style of writing, and I dislike awkward dialogue (the definition of which is perhaps impossible to come by--I know I like or not when I see it), and I like certain kinds of stories. I don't like stories about people struggling with an illness or a disability because they tend to depress me. So if I pick up a book by an author I've never heard of and have no reason to…
As soon as you form an opinion on a book, be it good or bad, you are already biased, regardless of the reason. I favor a certain style of writing, and I dislike awkward dialogue (the definition of which is perhaps impossible to come by--I know I like or not when I see it), and I like certain kinds of stories. I don't like stories about people struggling with an illness or a disability because they tend to depress me. So if I pick up a book by an author I've never heard of and have no reason to like or dislike, I am still already biased based on my preferences. When I read that book, if it has awkward dialogue or involves people with disabilities, I probably won't like it. In that sense, every review is inherently biased.<br />
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What makes a book good is subjective, and so there will always be biases.