Endings - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T09:30:56Zhttp://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/537324:Topic:88094?x=1&id=537324%3ATopic%3A88094&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI agree. With considerable je…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-02:537324:Comment:887022007-11-02T14:12:41.430ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
I agree. With considerable jealousy. :) Hey Vicki.
I agree. With considerable jealousy. :) Hey Vicki. It won't stop readers from cu…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-02:537324:Comment:887002007-11-02T14:11:14.525ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
It won't stop readers from cubby-holing stories to their own taste -- which in turn will produce writers writing to those tastes as soon as the cubby-hole becomes significantly large. Especially when editors prod them into doing so.
It won't stop readers from cubby-holing stories to their own taste -- which in turn will produce writers writing to those tastes as soon as the cubby-hole becomes significantly large. Especially when editors prod them into doing so. Have you read Susan Hill, San…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-02:537324:Comment:885942007-11-02T04:15:58.388ZVicki Delanyhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/VickiDelany
Have you read Susan Hill, Sandra (see my post below). Her endings can be quite unexpected, breaking the bounds of what's normally acceptable in a novel. Only, I think, because she's British can she get away with it.
Have you read Susan Hill, Sandra (see my post below). Her endings can be quite unexpected, breaking the bounds of what's normally acceptable in a novel. Only, I think, because she's British can she get away with it. Not to give away the ending -…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-02:537324:Comment:885912007-11-02T04:13:46.254ZVicki Delanyhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/VickiDelany
Not to give away the ending - but one of the very best mystery novels I've read in a long time is Pure In Heart by Susan Hill. ANd the ending is certainly NOT intellectually satisfying. It is, however, realistic. Hill is English, and I would be surprised if an ending like that ever happened in a U.S. published novel. I find that English novels are far more likely to bend the 'rules' somewhat that American ones. And, IMHO, they're the better for it.
Not to give away the ending - but one of the very best mystery novels I've read in a long time is Pure In Heart by Susan Hill. ANd the ending is certainly NOT intellectually satisfying. It is, however, realistic. Hill is English, and I would be surprised if an ending like that ever happened in a U.S. published novel. I find that English novels are far more likely to bend the 'rules' somewhat that American ones. And, IMHO, they're the better for it. Well, I guess this kind of di…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-01:537324:Comment:885072007-11-01T23:31:12.470ZJohn McFetridgehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JohnMcF
Well, I guess this kind of discussion is how we start to try and get publishers and booksellers to market them that way. I would also love it under a more generic label that might expose more people to more kinds of books.<br />
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Here, this guy said it way better than I ever could: <a href="http://www.johnrickards.com/archives/2007/11/01/our-genre-has-no-clothes/">http://www.johnrickards.com/archives/2007/11/01/our-genre-has-no-clothes/</a>
Well, I guess this kind of discussion is how we start to try and get publishers and booksellers to market them that way. I would also love it under a more generic label that might expose more people to more kinds of books.<br />
<br />
Here, this guy said it way better than I ever could: <a href="http://www.johnrickards.com/archives/2007/11/01/our-genre-has-no-clothes/">http://www.johnrickards.com/archives/2007/11/01/our-genre-has-no-clothes/</a> I don't mean to be dismissive…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-01:537324:Comment:884982007-11-01T22:54:03.182ZDana Kinghttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/DanaKing
I don't mean to be dismissive of the thoughts put forth here, and I apologize in advance if anyone takes umbrage with this comment, but these kinds of discussions drive me up the wall. It's a "how many detectives can fight on the head of a pin?" sort of thing. I try to think of it all as "crime fiction" and leave it at that. Wouldn't it be nice if we could get publishers and booksellers to market them that way? The readers would come around to the more generic label and might even be exposed to…
I don't mean to be dismissive of the thoughts put forth here, and I apologize in advance if anyone takes umbrage with this comment, but these kinds of discussions drive me up the wall. It's a "how many detectives can fight on the head of a pin?" sort of thing. I try to think of it all as "crime fiction" and leave it at that. Wouldn't it be nice if we could get publishers and booksellers to market them that way? The readers would come around to the more generic label and might even be exposed to things they would not have read before. Probably just because the sho…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-01:537324:Comment:884132007-11-01T16:16:12.555ZJohn McFetridgehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JohnMcF
Probably just because the show's been on so long and already covered so much ground, but it seems to me there are more cop-out endings on Law and Order these days. Maybe it's a sign of more uncertain times and a desire for more order, or closure (ugh, I hate that word) or something.<br />
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I'm just wondering if the envelope pushing that used to be in books, particularly in crime books, is as strong as it was. Or has it been replaced by cable TV?
Probably just because the show's been on so long and already covered so much ground, but it seems to me there are more cop-out endings on Law and Order these days. Maybe it's a sign of more uncertain times and a desire for more order, or closure (ugh, I hate that word) or something.<br />
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I'm just wondering if the envelope pushing that used to be in books, particularly in crime books, is as strong as it was. Or has it been replaced by cable TV? Hmm. I guess it could be a cu…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-01:537324:Comment:884062007-11-01T15:36:22.557ZPepper Smithhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Reefrunner
Hmm. I guess it could be a cultural thing. Maybe we've just been taught to expect that.<br />
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P D James writes police procedurals that sometimes end with the police knowing who the killer is but being unable to prove it in court, so the killer never goes to jail. I guess that would be considered 'intellectually satisfying,' in that you know who did it and how, but not particularly 'emotionally satisfying' because the killer didn't pay for the crime.
Hmm. I guess it could be a cultural thing. Maybe we've just been taught to expect that.<br />
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P D James writes police procedurals that sometimes end with the police knowing who the killer is but being unable to prove it in court, so the killer never goes to jail. I guess that would be considered 'intellectually satisfying,' in that you know who did it and how, but not particularly 'emotionally satisfying' because the killer didn't pay for the crime. I'm not sure that "intellectu…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-01:537324:Comment:883882007-11-01T14:41:06.553ZSandra Ruttanhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Sandramre
I'm not sure that "intellectually satisfying" means that there has to be a resolution that sees the person go to jail. Can it not be satisfying just to know whodunnit, maybe why, and they're still out there, an adversary for our protagonist? Think Rebus and Cafferty, Holmes and Moriarty.<br />
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Of course, it may be a cultural thing, in part. I understand Rankin sometimes has to add a bit to the end of the Rebus books for US publication. Personally, I enjoy some of the ambiguous endings... It leaves…
I'm not sure that "intellectually satisfying" means that there has to be a resolution that sees the person go to jail. Can it not be satisfying just to know whodunnit, maybe why, and they're still out there, an adversary for our protagonist? Think Rebus and Cafferty, Holmes and Moriarty.<br />
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Of course, it may be a cultural thing, in part. I understand Rankin sometimes has to add a bit to the end of the Rebus books for US publication. Personally, I enjoy some of the ambiguous endings... It leaves me wondering how it might play out in the future, but more than that, it feels real to me. You don't always get the bad guy. As an afterthought: I wasn't…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-01:537324:Comment:883822007-11-01T14:19:20.909ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
As an afterthought: I wasn't at all bothered by the ending in SOPRANOS. I'm mildly bothered by L&O cop-outs. There are many ways of ending a mystery as long as you you don't bore me to tears with a long explanation-of-clues-and-triumphant-announcement-of-most-unlikely-person-as-murderer chapter.
As an afterthought: I wasn't at all bothered by the ending in SOPRANOS. I'm mildly bothered by L&O cop-outs. There are many ways of ending a mystery as long as you you don't bore me to tears with a long explanation-of-clues-and-triumphant-announcement-of-most-unlikely-person-as-murderer chapter.