How do you make an anti-hero sympathetic? - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T11:21:14Zhttp://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/537324:Topic:91679?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A91698&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThe "not having any choice" t…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-20:537324:Comment:952592007-11-20T01:48:40.197ZNick Lawlesshttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/nickmor71
The "not having any choice" thing really made me think about retooling a section of the story. In doing so, I believe I have "fixed" the character. Thanks, I.J. and everybody!
The "not having any choice" thing really made me think about retooling a section of the story. In doing so, I believe I have "fixed" the character. Thanks, I.J. and everybody! The "bad guy" doesn't have to…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-15:537324:Comment:936152007-11-15T15:24:41.656ZAngiehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/slackerwriter
The "bad guy" doesn't have to be especially sympathetic, just interesting enough for readers to want to know what will happen to him. You can do whatever you want in terms of motivations for his behavior - it's your book, right? Also, I've read plenty of books where the baddie just gave me the shivers, I had no sympathy, but maybe a wee bit of empathy and it's been enough. Good luck!
The "bad guy" doesn't have to be especially sympathetic, just interesting enough for readers to want to know what will happen to him. You can do whatever you want in terms of motivations for his behavior - it's your book, right? Also, I've read plenty of books where the baddie just gave me the shivers, I had no sympathy, but maybe a wee bit of empathy and it's been enough. Good luck! See Barry Eisler's assassin s…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-15:537324:Comment:936092007-11-15T15:19:01.749ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
See Barry Eisler's assassin series. He also answered that question on a thriller panel at Bouchercon once. As long as the antihero eliminates even more horrible villains and never harms the innocent, you're pretty much okay. And there are some other ways also, such as not having any choice in the matter.
See Barry Eisler's assassin series. He also answered that question on a thriller panel at Bouchercon once. As long as the antihero eliminates even more horrible villains and never harms the innocent, you're pretty much okay. And there are some other ways also, such as not having any choice in the matter. I was instantly drawn to this…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-15:537324:Comment:935572007-11-15T13:36:53.744ZWinona Crosshttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/WinonaCross
I was instantly drawn to this subject. I'm working on a manuscript for a young adult audience. The "bad guy" is a man even I can't stand. I need to bring in some sort of sympathy for him. The story takes place in 1846, so the culture of the time wouldn't make him seem so bad these days. He is lazy and verbally abusive to his wife and son. He sets his sights on an 18 year old girl. Can I use his poor childhood and current drastic need for food and money? Can I give him a low self-esteem?<br />
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Wish I…
I was instantly drawn to this subject. I'm working on a manuscript for a young adult audience. The "bad guy" is a man even I can't stand. I need to bring in some sort of sympathy for him. The story takes place in 1846, so the culture of the time wouldn't make him seem so bad these days. He is lazy and verbally abusive to his wife and son. He sets his sights on an 18 year old girl. Can I use his poor childhood and current drastic need for food and money? Can I give him a low self-esteem?<br />
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Wish I could offer more to you about your own character. Your own question echoes mine.<br />
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Winona Cross It's easier to be sympathetic…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-13:537324:Comment:924142007-11-13T02:29:01.566ZMari Sloanhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Mari
It's easier to be sympathetic if your bad guy can communicate WHY he is doing what ever it is that he is doing. If he has a good reason, even if it makes sense only to him, at least you understand. Also, as previously mentioned, he may have moments of goodness. No one is ALL bad. or he may be some trait that you respect, even if it is that you can't kill him or get rid of him.You have to admire someone that won't lie down and die.
It's easier to be sympathetic if your bad guy can communicate WHY he is doing what ever it is that he is doing. If he has a good reason, even if it makes sense only to him, at least you understand. Also, as previously mentioned, he may have moments of goodness. No one is ALL bad. or he may be some trait that you respect, even if it is that you can't kill him or get rid of him.You have to admire someone that won't lie down and die. Some good advice. Thanks ever…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-12:537324:Comment:922582007-11-12T17:21:57.765ZNick Lawlesshttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/nickmor71
Some good advice. Thanks everybody!
Some good advice. Thanks everybody! You think maybe that is the a…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-11:537324:Comment:919782007-11-11T17:03:52.352Zmike Dhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/mikeD
You think maybe that is the appeal of the House character on the television show. He isnt likable, he isnt a caring guy, he is a selfish, self centered ass....and I love him for it!<br />
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Nowadays, for me anyway, it isnt that I must root for the guy, or want this or that to take place, I just want to be told a good story and maybe one that makes me want a little more. For instance. I recently read the maltese falcon, and then the big sleep....i totally wanted to read more of sam spade, but the…
You think maybe that is the appeal of the House character on the television show. He isnt likable, he isnt a caring guy, he is a selfish, self centered ass....and I love him for it!<br />
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Nowadays, for me anyway, it isnt that I must root for the guy, or want this or that to take place, I just want to be told a good story and maybe one that makes me want a little more. For instance. I recently read the maltese falcon, and then the big sleep....i totally wanted to read more of sam spade, but the marlowe story i wasnt as impressed with...both guys are pretty cold, but that is what is so great about them.<br />
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just my two cents, but I think having a likable guy isnt as important as someone that you want to see what happens to them...not sure if I would call it caring, but lets say I would be interested in their outcome... I agree with Donna. Evil seri…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-11:537324:Comment:918222007-11-11T02:18:29.736ZJana Oliverhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JanaOliver
I agree with Donna. Evil serial killers bore me senseless. I once asked an actor known for his bad guys how he got into the proper mindset to play such horrific people. He said that he needed to create a full backstory so he knew why the character was evil. And that he preferred the "charmingly creepy" bad guy to the slasher.<br />
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I took his words to heart. I'm currently working on a series with a very calculating bad guy. We don't even know his real name, but he's cool nonetheless. He's an…
I agree with Donna. Evil serial killers bore me senseless. I once asked an actor known for his bad guys how he got into the proper mindset to play such horrific people. He said that he needed to create a full backstory so he knew why the character was evil. And that he preferred the "charmingly creepy" bad guy to the slasher.<br />
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I took his words to heart. I'm currently working on a series with a very calculating bad guy. We don't even know his real name, but he's cool nonetheless. He's an assassin and he kills people with style. It's about the "art" of execution with him, not blood lust. This thrill comes from a 'bit of drama at the end', as he would say. He's oversexed, arrogant and, I have to admit, amazingly easy to write. Very complex, with lots of layers. You just know he has one heckuva backstory.<br />
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You'd expect him to be heartless. Instead, he cheerfully knifes an aristocratic bully who kicks a mangy warehouse cat. Yet when he realizes the heroine is difficult to kill, that earns his respect and he tries to find ways not to fulfill his contract. Creating the "perfect" psychopath (what a thought) is like adding icing to the cake. It makes a story come alive.<br />
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As to your problem -- does your character like going to the zoo and feeding the marmosets? Is he into yoga? Does he collect different colors of jelly beans? Give him more human traits so readers can see the paradox (like empathy for the mangy cat). It shows the readers that this crazy has a lot more to him than just a desire to destroy. Yes! What Donna said...
As l…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-11:537324:Comment:918192007-11-11T02:16:50.530ZAngiehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/slackerwriter
Yes! What Donna said...<br />
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As long as your reader cares about/is interested in what happens to the bad dude/dudette, the character doesn't have to be someone we'd like to hang out and have coffee with.
Yes! What Donna said...<br />
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As long as your reader cares about/is interested in what happens to the bad dude/dudette, the character doesn't have to be someone we'd like to hang out and have coffee with. Sometimes an anti hero can ga…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-11-11:537324:Comment:918122007-11-11T01:54:00.240ZKaryn J. Powershttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/karyning
Sometimes an anti hero can gain our love by acting on his impulses in a manner that satisfies those of us who pretend civility. He/she gets to grab and toss the guy who cuts in line at the coffee shop. He/she spins the wheel and follows the jerk in the car that cuts him/her off in traffic. Maybe he cares for an object or a creature that strikes a chord with many of us. He empties his victims' wallets into the church collection plate between murders. Balances contract killing with the occasional…
Sometimes an anti hero can gain our love by acting on his impulses in a manner that satisfies those of us who pretend civility. He/she gets to grab and toss the guy who cuts in line at the coffee shop. He/she spins the wheel and follows the jerk in the car that cuts him/her off in traffic. Maybe he cares for an object or a creature that strikes a chord with many of us. He empties his victims' wallets into the church collection plate between murders. Balances contract killing with the occasional pro bono vigilante work.