Cruelty to Animals in Crime Fiction - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T16:02:18Zhttp://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/cruelty-to-animals-in-crime?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A239293&feed=yes&xn_auth=nothought Larsson was trying to…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-26:537324:Comment:2395432010-06-26T00:35:17.245ZCaroline Trippehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<b>thought Larsson was trying to condemn his society</b><br />
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I thought so too. He was a journalist, in real life, and tried to expose all kinds of corruption, apparently. He died quite young---probably a heavy smoker---but under a lot of stress too!<br />
<b>I got bogged down by a lot of omniscient, background passages and couldn't finish.</b><br />
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Maybe he needed a more stringent editor!
<b>thought Larsson was trying to condemn his society</b><br />
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I thought so too. He was a journalist, in real life, and tried to expose all kinds of corruption, apparently. He died quite young---probably a heavy smoker---but under a lot of stress too!<br />
<b>I got bogged down by a lot of omniscient, background passages and couldn't finish.</b><br />
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Maybe he needed a more stringent editor! She is violent as a direct re…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-26:537324:Comment:2395422010-06-26T00:32:34.553ZCaroline Trippehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<b>She is violent as a direct result of what happened to her, and she directs her violence against those who abuse girls. That, I can buy.<br />
</b><br />
Yes. She's a kind of :"fury." An "avenging angel." She's TINY---like a child, which is also interesting. And works with the Pippi Longstocking connection. As for Stieg Larsson's attitude toward women---well, sadly, he ain't here to defend himself. I think he liked them. The real villains in his books are ALL male. And they are as bad as they can be. And…
<b>She is violent as a direct result of what happened to her, and she directs her violence against those who abuse girls. That, I can buy.<br />
</b><br />
Yes. She's a kind of :"fury." An "avenging angel." She's TINY---like a child, which is also interesting. And works with the Pippi Longstocking connection. As for Stieg Larsson's attitude toward women---well, sadly, he ain't here to defend himself. I think he liked them. The real villains in his books are ALL male. And they are as bad as they can be. And they DO get their "comeuppance." The women are, for the most part, strong, smart and savvy. Why is it readers can be so p…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-26:537324:Comment:2395392010-06-26T00:25:50.528ZCaroline Trippehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<i><b>Why is it readers can be so passionate about one issue, and people who actually work with kids who are being abused, who're using and selling and all that other stuff can turn themselves off to it?</b></i><b><br />
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Sandra, I think that a lot of us who have not had the kind of experience in that you've had, which is extraordinarily demanding and emotionally draining, and which makes you angry because you can ONLY do "so much" ---are still compassionate, kind people, who perhaps wish we could do…</b>
<i><b>Why is it readers can be so passionate about one issue, and people who actually work with kids who are being abused, who're using and selling and all that other stuff can turn themselves off to it?</b></i><b><br />
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Sandra, I think that a lot of us who have not had the kind of experience in that you've had, which is extraordinarily demanding and emotionally draining, and which makes you angry because you can ONLY do "so much" ---are still compassionate, kind people, who perhaps wish we could do more than we actually can.<br />
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<i>Dang, I'd pick up every stray on the street and take them in if I could - cats, dogs, you name it. And people too.<br />
</i><br />
There you are. You wish you could do more. But, you know---just by doing whatever you are doing, you're doing your part, and you're doing plenty. I'm not surprised you take it home at night, that you're so sensitive to the needs of these people. We'd probably all do the same, but maybe we don't all have the stamina.</b><br />
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But what I said earlier about boundaries---you still have to keep a little inner sanctuary for yourself. If I worked in an animal shelter, for instance, I would have 50 cats, instead of only 5. And I'd still feel guilty about the ones I couldn't take home.<br />
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t<b>here are a lot of readers who are concerned about violence towards animals in books.</b><br />
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I expect there are. I'm actually relieved to hear it. I just hadn't been on any of THOSE forums. And concerned about violence of all kinds in books, and in movies.<br />
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Maybe we read mysteries because for the most part, even though it's just fiction, SOMEONE is trying to do something about bringing the violent to justice. Well, that's one reason, anyway. And not a bad one, at that.<br />
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Why do you read mysteries? :) Did I say 'admirable' somewhe…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-26:537324:Comment:2395382010-06-26T00:12:57.766ZSandra Ruttanhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Sandramre
Did I say 'admirable' somewhere? Really, I went back and looked and couldn't find it, but if I did it was an error in context. I can admire certain things about the character, but overall this is a kid who's a drug dealer and a murderer. Did he have values? Yes. Were they warped and twisted? Yes, in some ways they were. And all the experiences of his life had warped him. He was a product of his environment but he still had a heart. You don't see as much of it throughout the movie. He's lying to…
Did I say 'admirable' somewhere? Really, I went back and looked and couldn't find it, but if I did it was an error in context. I can admire certain things about the character, but overall this is a kid who's a drug dealer and a murderer. Did he have values? Yes. Were they warped and twisted? Yes, in some ways they were. And all the experiences of his life had warped him. He was a product of his environment but he still had a heart. You don't see as much of it throughout the movie. He's lying to so many people you don't really know what he's up to, but at the end, after it's over, one single tear rolls down his cheek. And no matter what, I could feel for him, for the hopelessness of his situation and his life. Yet somehow, he decided to save his sister from it, or to at least risk his own life trying. There is something admirable in that.<br />
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That's great storytelling. It was a general comment. And…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-26:537324:Comment:2395372010-06-26T00:06:45.764ZSandra Ruttanhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Sandramre
It was a general comment. And, generally speaking, it's true of a lot of people. I've been around the block on various message boards, forums and listserves and seen variations on the discussion about animals hurt in fiction over and over again.<br />
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And I've worked in one of the toughest neighborhoods in Baltimore (not to mention tough neighborhoods in the GVA and Calgary as well) and I can tell you that in my experience, there are a lot of readers who are concerned about violence towards animals…
It was a general comment. And, generally speaking, it's true of a lot of people. I've been around the block on various message boards, forums and listserves and seen variations on the discussion about animals hurt in fiction over and over again.<br />
<br />
And I've worked in one of the toughest neighborhoods in Baltimore (not to mention tough neighborhoods in the GVA and Calgary as well) and I can tell you that in my experience, there are a lot of readers who are concerned about violence towards animals in books.<br />
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But in some of the inner city schools I've worked in I've been told repeatedly not to take it home with you, don't worry about what's out of your control, stay out of it 'cos you can't save them from the streets.<br />
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It's a very interesting contrast for me. Why is it readers can be so passionate about one issue, and people who actually work with kids who are being abused, who're using and selling and all that other stuff can turn themselves off to it?<br />
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The program I worked in last year, statistically, 85% of the kids will be dead or in jail by the time they are or should be 18.<br />
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How do you <b><i>not</i></b> take that home with you at night? But that's me. Dang, I'd pick up every stray on the street and take them in if I could - cats, dogs, you name it. And people too. I read about two-thirds of #2…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-25:537324:Comment:2395272010-06-25T22:27:23.606ZJack Getzehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JGetze
I read about two-thirds of #2, The Girl Who Played with Fire. I kept going as long as I did because of the female lead, the young girl who'd been abused. I liked and cared about her, and thought Larsson was trying to condemn his society (cops, judges, the foster system) for being misogynistic and hypocritical. I got bogged down by a lot of omniscient, background passages and couldn't finish.
I read about two-thirds of #2, The Girl Who Played with Fire. I kept going as long as I did because of the female lead, the young girl who'd been abused. I liked and cared about her, and thought Larsson was trying to condemn his society (cops, judges, the foster system) for being misogynistic and hypocritical. I got bogged down by a lot of omniscient, background passages and couldn't finish. Well, I may get it from the l…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-25:537324:Comment:2395262010-06-25T21:02:56.043ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Well, I may get it from the library in a year or so. Her character is what sells the books. Most readers have taken it to be an affirmation of the strong, liberated female. She is violent as a direct result of what happened to her, and she directs her violence against those who abuse girls. That, I can buy. Larsson's attitude towards women is another matter.
Well, I may get it from the library in a year or so. Her character is what sells the books. Most readers have taken it to be an affirmation of the strong, liberated female. She is violent as a direct result of what happened to her, and she directs her violence against those who abuse girls. That, I can buy. Larsson's attitude towards women is another matter. I had not read those stories…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-25:537324:Comment:2395202010-06-25T19:37:49.040ZCaroline Trippehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
I had not read those stories when I was a kid, but there's a direct reference to her in his books---and the protagonists nickname is Kalle Blomkvist, one of Astrid Lindgren's (?) characters---a boy detective. When I read about Pippi Longstocking the similarities were astonishing---including her brains, her insouciance, and her sometimes supernatural strength.
I had not read those stories when I was a kid, but there's a direct reference to her in his books---and the protagonists nickname is Kalle Blomkvist, one of Astrid Lindgren's (?) characters---a boy detective. When I read about Pippi Longstocking the similarities were astonishing---including her brains, her insouciance, and her sometimes supernatural strength. He revels in the violence aga…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-25:537324:Comment:2395192010-06-25T19:34:23.198ZCaroline Trippehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<b>He revels in the violence against women thing.</b><br />
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And sex. Some of it prettttty kinky.<br />
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But the girl is violent too---kind of a psychic extension of an, um, male ego...she's hell on wheels with a baseball bat!<br />
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I've read two of the novels. Think I'll skip the third one. Don't need it.
<b>He revels in the violence against women thing.</b><br />
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And sex. Some of it prettttty kinky.<br />
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But the girl is violent too---kind of a psychic extension of an, um, male ego...she's hell on wheels with a baseball bat!<br />
<br />
I've read two of the novels. Think I'll skip the third one. Don't need it. Guilty pleasures? Because we…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-25:537324:Comment:2395182010-06-25T19:25:52.157ZCaroline Trippehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
Guilty pleasures? Because we are all a bit twisted? (Anyone who wants to make himself or herself an exception is welcome to do so). Curiosity? The very human desire to understand HOW someone could do such things. And, let's face it, we are a society that loves sensationalism. As long as it's not someone WE know who is a victim. On some level I think we just go into denial about our own feelings and motivations.<br />
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The Petersons (Michael and Kathleen) and their family) lived only a few blocks…
Guilty pleasures? Because we are all a bit twisted? (Anyone who wants to make himself or herself an exception is welcome to do so). Curiosity? The very human desire to understand HOW someone could do such things. And, let's face it, we are a society that loves sensationalism. As long as it's not someone WE know who is a victim. On some level I think we just go into denial about our own feelings and motivations.<br />
<br />
The Petersons (Michael and Kathleen) and their family) lived only a few blocks away, in Forest Hills, one of the poshest neighborhoods in Durham. After his conviction, the contents of the house were sold in a estate sale or auction, I was out for a my usual walk on that day, and along the cross street and on the side streets of the entire quiet residential neighborhood near their home there was not a single place to be found---where there is seldom ANYONE parked. People were parking everywhere except on residents' lawns. There were HUNDREDS at that auction--they had to take numbers. Did they need all the fine stuff---the antiques and such that they were going to get at a bargain? I don't think so. My guess is that most of them wanted to get inside THE MURDER HOUSE! Even to have bragging rights---"I got this vase at...." I met a couple on their way back to their car---book dealers--who hadn't even been able to get in the door. on TV they showed people coming out of the house with the loot they'd bought--one woman literally jumping up and down in glee, like someone on THE PRICE IS RIGHT. Poor Kathleen Peterson. Dead and gone, and the vultures picking at the remnants of her once lovely life.