The Antagonist - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T06:09:34Zhttp://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/the-antagonist?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A312870&feed=yes&xn_auth=noWhy not? I've read novels whe…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-11-28:537324:Comment:3230312011-11-28T02:49:38.599ZJen Hilbornehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JenHilborne
<p>Why not? I've read novels where the heroine or hero is referred to as exactly that and it's never bothered me. You could refer to him as The Villain if you change your mind on The Antagonist. I like it.</p>
<p>Why not? I've read novels where the heroine or hero is referred to as exactly that and it's never bothered me. You could refer to him as The Villain if you change your mind on The Antagonist. I like it.</p> Yes, I think I can see that w…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-09-08:537324:Comment:3137442011-09-08T14:07:46.539ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Yes, I think I can see that working. In an office it's easy to overlook a low profile character. And since you'll have a number of office workers, the reader won't know who the antagonist is. Clever.
Yes, I think I can see that working. In an office it's easy to overlook a low profile character. And since you'll have a number of office workers, the reader won't know who the antagonist is. Clever. IJ,
I appreciate your respo…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-09-08:537324:Comment:3137552011-09-08T07:59:59.458ZJames Fouchehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JamesFouche
<p>IJ,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I appreciate your response. I specifically asked whether this would work or not, or whether it would be too confusing for the reader. In writing my responses on this thread, I'm constantly re-evaluating how I write the character. Your responses are helping me to better shape the way I tell the story.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>IJ,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I appreciate your response. I specifically asked whether this would work or not, or whether it would be too confusing for the reader. In writing my responses on this thread, I'm constantly re-evaluating how I write the character. Your responses are helping me to better shape the way I tell the story.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thanks,</p> Guess it's not far removed fr…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-09-08:537324:Comment:3137382011-09-08T07:56:37.690ZJames Fouchehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JamesFouche
<p>Guess it's not far removed from duality. However, the good (innocent) side is sketched by the POV of other characters and the bad (true) side is sketched through the POV of the Antagonist. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>To the other characters The Antagonist is Mr. Smith - a great, hardworking guy. They don't really notice him much and in their POV he doesn't really feature that often. If he does feature, it would be in a good light.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Then the reader gets to experience the Antagonist, a bad…</p>
<p>Guess it's not far removed from duality. However, the good (innocent) side is sketched by the POV of other characters and the bad (true) side is sketched through the POV of the Antagonist. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>To the other characters The Antagonist is Mr. Smith - a great, hardworking guy. They don't really notice him much and in their POV he doesn't really feature that often. If he does feature, it would be in a good light.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Then the reader gets to experience the Antagonist, a bad guy who is plotting to undermine the entire office, kill his boss and whoever gets in his way.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Does that make a bit more sense?</p> IJ,
I kept everything 3rd p…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-09-08:537324:Comment:3137372011-09-08T07:46:29.150ZJames Fouchehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JamesFouche
<p>IJ,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I kept everything 3rd person, but I would shift from one character to the other. The trick was to avoid POV of a number of characters who could possibly be The Antagonist. Ambiguity was my main aim here.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Example: Boss of company is one POV, secretary is second POV. One of the 12 Members of the Board is the Antagonist, so there is ample room to play off a mystery with boss POV, secretary POV and Antagonist POV, without revealing the identity of…</p>
<p>IJ,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I kept everything 3rd person, but I would shift from one character to the other. The trick was to avoid POV of a number of characters who could possibly be The Antagonist. Ambiguity was my main aim here.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Example: Boss of company is one POV, secretary is second POV. One of the 12 Members of the Board is the Antagonist, so there is ample room to play off a mystery with boss POV, secretary POV and Antagonist POV, without revealing the identity of Antagonist.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Does this make sense?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>j</p> The more I take readers into…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-09-01:537324:Comment:3128832011-09-01T16:23:35.420ZJack Getzehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JGetze
The more I take readers into account, the better my writing gets.
The more I take readers into account, the better my writing gets. Hmm. I'm perplexed again. I…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-09-01:537324:Comment:3128702011-09-01T14:17:31.444ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Hmm. I'm perplexed again. It's a bit like having a character with two different identities.
Hmm. I'm perplexed again. It's a bit like having a character with two different identities. I don't quite follow this. D…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-09-01:537324:Comment:3128622011-09-01T14:16:12.367ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
<p>I don't quite follow this. Do you mean you have a group of characters you present in the third person pov, and then you shift to 1st person to let one of them comment on the action, and this character is the antagonist, and we must guess which one of the others he is?</p>
<p>It sounds feasible but incredibly difficult not to give himself away.</p>
<p>I don't quite follow this. Do you mean you have a group of characters you present in the third person pov, and then you shift to 1st person to let one of them comment on the action, and this character is the antagonist, and we must guess which one of the others he is?</p>
<p>It sounds feasible but incredibly difficult not to give himself away.</p> I read you loud and clear, Ju…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-09-01:537324:Comment:3128572011-09-01T12:47:26.879ZJames Fouchehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JamesFouche
<p>I read you loud and clear, Jude. I'm trying my best to refrain from the character thinking of himself as The Antagonist. I'd rather say, "The Antagonist picked up the cup" as opposed to actually referring to himself as The Antagonist.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Unfortunately it's imperative to keep the character's true identity secret until the last possible moment. This meant creating conflicts with additional characters and introducing more suspects.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I want to take the readers into…</p>
<p>I read you loud and clear, Jude. I'm trying my best to refrain from the character thinking of himself as The Antagonist. I'd rather say, "The Antagonist picked up the cup" as opposed to actually referring to himself as The Antagonist.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Unfortunately it's imperative to keep the character's true identity secret until the last possible moment. This meant creating conflicts with additional characters and introducing more suspects.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I want to take the readers into account but I don't want to walk on egg shells either. The style still needs to be essentially me, but not too elaborate or complex. The lead character in my last book backfired badly. Fellow writers (and readers who appreciate complex characters) loved him, but the conventional reader was a bit perplexed.</p> Well, the irony is that The A…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-09-01:537324:Comment:3128672011-09-01T12:38:48.722ZJames Fouchehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JamesFouche
<p>Well, the irony is that The Antagonist remains such until his true identity is revealed in the end.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In other words, the character shifts around unnoticed as himself. As The Antagonist he could be one of twelve people. So the interactions take place from the POV of The Antagonist interacting with other characters - scheming, plotting, etc. But also from POV's of other characters seeing the Antagonist as someone of no importance.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Dana, in your experience, will…</p>
<p>Well, the irony is that The Antagonist remains such until his true identity is revealed in the end.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In other words, the character shifts around unnoticed as himself. As The Antagonist he could be one of twelve people. So the interactions take place from the POV of The Antagonist interacting with other characters - scheming, plotting, etc. But also from POV's of other characters seeing the Antagonist as someone of no importance.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Dana, in your experience, will this confuse the reader too much? Or can it work if it is done properly?</p>