Violence: how far is too far? - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T08:34:04Zhttp://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/violence-how-far-is-too-far?id=537324%3ATopic%3A360917&feed=yes&xn_auth=noRight on.
tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-12-26:537324:Comment:3626432012-12-26T22:23:46.238ZJack Getzehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JGetze
<p>Right on.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Right on.</p>
<p></p> Curiously, I've had two reade…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-12-26:537324:Comment:3630572012-12-26T21:23:56.693ZSusanhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Susan
<p>Curiously, I've had two readers complain about the thoughts going through my killer's minds while they, shall we say, "get it off" as they contemplate their victims. One said "Well I guess this is how they think." And yes, it is the way they think, at least according to the interviews I've read about them by FBI profilers.</p>
<p>I insert these "thoughts" by the killer to indicate/show their character and how they think. Should I offer a disclaimer for the sexually squeamish…</p>
<p>Curiously, I've had two readers complain about the thoughts going through my killer's minds while they, shall we say, "get it off" as they contemplate their victims. One said "Well I guess this is how they think." And yes, it is the way they think, at least according to the interviews I've read about them by FBI profilers.</p>
<p>I insert these "thoughts" by the killer to indicate/show their character and how they think. Should I offer a disclaimer for the sexually squeamish reader?'</p>
<p></p> I'm probably the wrong person…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-12-25:537324:Comment:3627372012-12-25T16:23:37.088ZMartyn V. Halmhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/MartynVHalm
<p>I'm probably the wrong person to ask. My Amsterdam Assassin Series revolves around a freelance assassin, Katla Sieltjes, who specializes in disguising homicide. She rarely uses guns, and the violent scenes in the books caused one beta reader to admit that she was glad that I 'lived on the other side of the pond', as if I shared the homicidal tendencies of my protagonist.</p>
<p>For me, violence has to be written well. I'm not concerned with the graphic detail of a violent act, but I dislike…</p>
<p>I'm probably the wrong person to ask. My Amsterdam Assassin Series revolves around a freelance assassin, Katla Sieltjes, who specializes in disguising homicide. She rarely uses guns, and the violent scenes in the books caused one beta reader to admit that she was glad that I 'lived on the other side of the pond', as if I shared the homicidal tendencies of my protagonist.</p>
<p>For me, violence has to be written well. I'm not concerned with the graphic detail of a violent act, but I dislike errors that shake me from the suspension of disbelief. I don't think graphic scenes in books desensitize readers the way slasher movies might desensitize viewers.</p>
<p>As to the idea that sociopaths might get novel ideas from reading crime fiction with graphically violent scenes, I don't think sociopaths are into reading crime fiction to come up with ideas for their nefarious actions. After all, reading requires imagination to visualize the scenes, whereas TV and Movies will provide much more information to those so inclined without the effort to translate the written word into visual scenes.</p>
<p>If writers are concerned that their books might get negative reviews because of the graphic detail of the violent content, maybe a disclaimer or warning is in order. Just to prevent the sensitive readers from plucking their novels from the stack...</p> Funny, how the author is ofte…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-12-25:537324:Comment:3628332012-12-25T16:01:39.228ZMartyn V. Halmhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/MartynVHalm
<p>Funny, how the author is often identified with the protagonist.</p>
<p>Funny, how the author is often identified with the protagonist.</p> Actually, there are books by…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-12-08:537324:Comment:3619392012-12-08T17:54:52.953ZSusanhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Susan
<p>Actually, there are books by two college educated women about their experiences as call girls. they did it to finance their educations. And while I'm at it, I agree with your comment, Caroline, about the fact that women were/are prudes and don't like sex is, as you said a "construct" and much of it was constructed by male doctors, psychiatrists, sociologists and the like.</p>
<p>Actually, there are books by two college educated women about their experiences as call girls. they did it to finance their educations. And while I'm at it, I agree with your comment, Caroline, about the fact that women were/are prudes and don't like sex is, as you said a "construct" and much of it was constructed by male doctors, psychiatrists, sociologists and the like.</p> Thanks Jude, great point.tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-12-08:537324:Comment:3619362012-12-08T17:49:06.993ZSusanhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Susan
<p>Thanks Jude, great point.</p>
<p>Thanks Jude, great point.</p> The graphic use of violence d…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-12-07:537324:Comment:3619952012-12-07T14:57:04.382ZWilliam G. Davishttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/WilliamGDavis
<p>The graphic use of violence depends on its relevance to the plot along with the psychology and motivation of the characters. Some readers just don't want to experience it. But done well, it can add to the overall reading experience. Anyone who wants to experience great writing in a symphony of violence might want to read <em>Run</em> by Douglas E. Winter.</p>
<p>If you check out the reviews, they are all over the place from 2 Stars to 5. In this story you've got to accept the violence as…</p>
<p>The graphic use of violence depends on its relevance to the plot along with the psychology and motivation of the characters. Some readers just don't want to experience it. But done well, it can add to the overall reading experience. Anyone who wants to experience great writing in a symphony of violence might want to read <em>Run</em> by Douglas E. Winter.</p>
<p>If you check out the reviews, they are all over the place from 2 Stars to 5. In this story you've got to accept the violence as part of the protagonist's world. As I said in my review of <em>Run</em>, <em>"</em><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 10pt;"><em>Fans of Elmore Leonard, Andrew Vachss, and James Elroy will consume this novel like the feast of the mind and soul that it truly is, for while violence, death, and deceit are the elements that tumble out of control in Burdon Lane's life, it is ultimately the humanity of this self-admitted 'bad guy' that redeems him. You will remember Run for a long long time."</em> It was the excellent writing and the violence that has made me remember it for a long, long time. </span></p>
<p> </p> Yup! We got that right on al…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-11-29:537324:Comment:3613202012-11-29T15:11:33.833ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
<p>Yup! We got that right on all counts. :)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I skimmed a couple of the bodice-rippers. They aren't really badly written. The problem is generally an absence of plot and character (beyond the toothsome female and the hunk), a predictable sex scene every 10 pages or so (there's a challenge for you: how to avoid repetition?), and a general pointlessness. The sex scenes are the point.</p>
<p>Yup! We got that right on all counts. :)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I skimmed a couple of the bodice-rippers. They aren't really badly written. The problem is generally an absence of plot and character (beyond the toothsome female and the hunk), a predictable sex scene every 10 pages or so (there's a challenge for you: how to avoid repetition?), and a general pointlessness. The sex scenes are the point.</p> raunchy romance novels have b…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-11-29:537324:Comment:3615792012-11-29T13:11:51.665ZCaroline Trippehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<p><strong>raunchy romance novels have been with us for a very long time.</strong></p>
<p></p>
<p>Yes, and I once met someone who actually wrote some---she was a CLASSICS graduate student! But, honestly, I've never even read one. I'm too afraid of the bad writing I'm sure I'd encounter! </p>
<p>Yes, many women do adopt the public persona of being "straight laced." As for the cultural construct, I think it's a case of enablement, as it suits both men AND women.</p>
<p>And I'd agree with you…</p>
<p><strong>raunchy romance novels have been with us for a very long time.</strong></p>
<p></p>
<p>Yes, and I once met someone who actually wrote some---she was a CLASSICS graduate student! But, honestly, I've never even read one. I'm too afraid of the bad writing I'm sure I'd encounter! </p>
<p>Yes, many women do adopt the public persona of being "straight laced." As for the cultural construct, I think it's a case of enablement, as it suits both men AND women.</p>
<p>And I'd agree with you about women's intolerance of other women. Many women like to think of themselves as belonging to a sisterhood---until it comes to competition over available males! But perhaps even female rivalry is a cultural construct! :) Again, one that suits all parties. </p>
<p> </p>
<p></p> As for straight-laced women: …tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-11-28:537324:Comment:3615722012-11-28T19:21:52.239ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
<p>As for straight-laced women: yes, it may be a cultural construct, possibly created by women, but the fact is that it is their public persona for most women. And let's face it, women aren't very tolerant of other women.</p>
<p>Reading e-book pornography is a very private occupation. The success of such books may have helped liberate some women from their embarrassment. If everybody reads it, then it must be ok.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I would say that the current fad will pass in time, but raunchy…</p>
<p>As for straight-laced women: yes, it may be a cultural construct, possibly created by women, but the fact is that it is their public persona for most women. And let's face it, women aren't very tolerant of other women.</p>
<p>Reading e-book pornography is a very private occupation. The success of such books may have helped liberate some women from their embarrassment. If everybody reads it, then it must be ok.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I would say that the current fad will pass in time, but raunchy romance novels have been with us for a very long time. And yes, in romance novels, the man is the object.</p>
<p>McDermid's THE SIRENS SINGING is a shocking and sadistic book, but it is a very clever one. That saves it in the end. The rest of McDermid is forgettable.</p>