Well Said! - CrimeSpace2024-03-28T21:02:18Zhttp://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/well-said?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A352500&feed=yes&xn_auth=no50 SHADES will fade away, and…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-08-22:537324:Comment:3537732012-08-22T11:47:01.790ZCaroline Trippehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<p><em>50 SHADES will fade away, and life will go on.</em></p>
<p>This is true. It will fade.</p>
<p>Easy come, easy go. </p>
<p> And then there will be "50 Shades of Puce. " (I am really going to have to take a peek at this dreadful phenomenon!) :) </p>
<p>I remember "The Bridges of M. County." Not because I read it, but because the movie, which eventually came on TV, wasn't as bad as I might have expected---at least it had Meryl Streep lending some credibility to the character. And bad…</p>
<p><em>50 SHADES will fade away, and life will go on.</em></p>
<p>This is true. It will fade.</p>
<p>Easy come, easy go. </p>
<p> And then there will be "50 Shades of Puce. " (I am really going to have to take a peek at this dreadful phenomenon!) :) </p>
<p>I remember "The Bridges of M. County." Not because I read it, but because the movie, which eventually came on TV, wasn't as bad as I might have expected---at least it had Meryl Streep lending some credibility to the character. And bad novels can sometimes be transformed into decent movies. Even "Interview with the Vampire." I liked the part where the little girl vampire's curls sprang back as soon as she cut them off. (A Don't Try this at Home trick). </p>
<p></p>
<p> </p> But of course.
Still....I'm t…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-08-22:537324:Comment:3537012012-08-22T11:37:35.852ZCaroline Trippehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<p>But of course.</p>
<p>Still....I'm thinking that a pigshit geyser could do some serious damage to human culture! Maybe not end it....but make it sort of...unrecognizable....</p>
<p>But of course.</p>
<p>Still....I'm thinking that a pigshit geyser could do some serious damage to human culture! Maybe not end it....but make it sort of...unrecognizable....</p> You may of course buy me a dr…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-08-21:537324:Comment:3525152012-08-21T17:29:24.499ZJon Loomishttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JonLoomis
<p>You may of course buy me a drink, as long as I can get the second round, Caroline. I'm kidding, mostly, about 50 Shades being the end of human culture as we know it. I'm not kidding when I say it's a pigshit geyser.</p>
<p>You may of course buy me a drink, as long as I can get the second round, Caroline. I'm kidding, mostly, about 50 Shades being the end of human culture as we know it. I'm not kidding when I say it's a pigshit geyser.</p> May I buy you a drink?
And I…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-08-21:537324:Comment:3527552012-08-21T16:32:06.419ZCaroline Trippehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<p>May I buy you a drink? </p>
<p>And I seriously hope you WEREN"T kidding! </p>
<p>May I buy you a drink? </p>
<p>And I seriously hope you WEREN"T kidding! </p> Also very well said! Yes, go…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-08-20:537324:Comment:3525002012-08-20T13:38:56.437ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
<p>Also very well said! Yes, good books are becoming increasingly linked to snobbery as something only fit for eggheads and nerds. Remember when it was shameful to be an A student because the other students rejected you? There it is again, the democratic leveling so that no one is better than anyone else.</p>
<p>I have long believed that the insistence on shortness (short books, short chapters, short paragraphs, short words) caters to semi-literates who don't like making an effort. There…</p>
<p>Also very well said! Yes, good books are becoming increasingly linked to snobbery as something only fit for eggheads and nerds. Remember when it was shameful to be an A student because the other students rejected you? There it is again, the democratic leveling so that no one is better than anyone else.</p>
<p>I have long believed that the insistence on shortness (short books, short chapters, short paragraphs, short words) caters to semi-literates who don't like making an effort. There seems to be no end to how far the dumbing-down process can be taken.</p> I don't think I knew until th…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-08-19:537324:Comment:3524852012-08-19T18:11:22.867ZCaroline Trippehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<p>I don't think I knew until this minute what "fanfic" is, and I'll bet I'm never going to read any.</p>
<p>Jon said it very well, </p>
<p><em>The difference between fanfic and a literary adaption like Ulysses, say, is that fanfic generally starts with something that's crap (Twilight) and turns it into something even worse (50 Shades), while a good adaptation starts with a familiar story and complicates, expands and reimagines it in a way that both creates a new story and alters our…</em></p>
<p>I don't think I knew until this minute what "fanfic" is, and I'll bet I'm never going to read any.</p>
<p>Jon said it very well, </p>
<p><em>The difference between fanfic and a literary adaption like Ulysses, say, is that fanfic generally starts with something that's crap (Twilight) and turns it into something even worse (50 Shades), while a good adaptation starts with a familiar story and complicates, expands and reimagines it in a way that both creates a new story and alters our understanding of the old story. </em></p>
<p>What is depressing about this thing called fanfic is that a lot of the people who apparently think it's great reading simply don't know there's anything better to be had. Or don't care. The milk chocolate bar adulterated with wax goes down a lot more quickly than 80% dark chocolate, and you can eat the wholething in just a few seconds without really having to savor it or think about its origins. :) </p>
<p>Many people don't read much anymore; their literary boundaries are stultifyingly narrow. And maybe they don't care. There's that anti-intellectual attitude that if you prefer really good literature, you must be a snob. Now, why is that? (Well, for one thing, if you weren't exposed to it early on, there's just not time enough to catch up). </p>
<p>Yet, unless you are aiming only for this kind of reader, why would any serious writer not want to experience everything? And by serious, I suppose I mean anyone who wants to write anything worth reading., even if it is a best seller? Even if it's just to learn how to write a proper sentence, a create a convincing character or setting, something believable. </p>
<p>Great literature, history, the Bible, mythology, and everything in between.So that you have a standard of comparison? So there's the possibility of making a choice. Of using all of it. One of my favorite mystery writers, Ruth Rendell, knows plenty about popular culture, (she was, after all , a journalist) and uses it very effectively in her novels, in the creation of many of her characters. She is also extremely erudite--no stranger to Shakespeare. And it's the merging of this combined knowledge that gives her work its depth. </p>
<p></p> My compliments on the pig shi…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-08-18:537324:Comment:3525962012-08-18T19:36:52.364ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
<p>My compliments on the pig shit geyser metaphor. Lovely. And yes, it should find a wider audience. It's far more effective than all of our other complaints about the book.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>One point, though, about the gatekeepers and the all-mighty big publishers: if there is a geyser, they are the first there with their little buckets.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I also liked the comment about the one-handed readers. :)</p>
<p>My compliments on the pig shit geyser metaphor. Lovely. And yes, it should find a wider audience. It's far more effective than all of our other complaints about the book.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>One point, though, about the gatekeepers and the all-mighty big publishers: if there is a geyser, they are the first there with their little buckets.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I also liked the comment about the one-handed readers. :)</p> There are always struggles at…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-08-18:537324:Comment:3526652012-08-18T19:14:49.748ZJohn McFetridgehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JohnMcF
There are always struggles at publishers, Ben, give and take. Sometimes editors give in to the marketing department and publish a "50 Shades" so they can publish something else. Simply because a major publisher picked it up doesn't mean anyone in editorial thought it was good. It just means publishing is stoll a combination of art and business.<br />
<br />
When that give and take is gone, when business wins out entirely... well, it looks like we'll see what happens then.<br />
<br />
What the ramifications really are…
There are always struggles at publishers, Ben, give and take. Sometimes editors give in to the marketing department and publish a "50 Shades" so they can publish something else. Simply because a major publisher picked it up doesn't mean anyone in editorial thought it was good. It just means publishing is stoll a combination of art and business.<br />
<br />
When that give and take is gone, when business wins out entirely... well, it looks like we'll see what happens then.<br />
<br />
What the ramifications really are depends on how you feel anout art and culture. It may be almost as important as food - and what we may be headed for is a steady diet of junk food. Now, I like junk food sometimes but I know what happens to me if it's all I eat. If Jon doesn't turn that repl…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-08-18:537324:Comment:3526642012-08-18T18:36:10.839ZBenjamin Sobieckhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/BenjaminSobieck
<p>If Jon doesn't turn that reply into an e-book, I will.</p>
<p></p>
<p>It takes a pigshit metaphor to get through to me. Grew up on a hobby farm, so we didn't have the crap ponds of an industrial operation. But we sure had pigs. So I've seen the light (or bubble, in this case).</p>
<p></p>
<p>I take your point about the gatekeepers, but I don't think it holds weight when 50 Shades became part of the proverbial system. If it was an example of a self-pubbing fail for the gatekeepers to look…</p>
<p>If Jon doesn't turn that reply into an e-book, I will.</p>
<p></p>
<p>It takes a pigshit metaphor to get through to me. Grew up on a hobby farm, so we didn't have the crap ponds of an industrial operation. But we sure had pigs. So I've seen the light (or bubble, in this case).</p>
<p></p>
<p>I take your point about the gatekeepers, but I don't think it holds weight when 50 Shades became part of the proverbial system. If it was an example of a self-pubbing fail for the gatekeepers to look down their noses, it wouldn't've been picked up by a major pub.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Anyway, we can all agree on one thing: You can't beat Jetsons porn.</p> I can tell you for a fact tha…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-08-18:537324:Comment:3524152012-08-18T17:08:41.845ZJon Loomishttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JonLoomis
<p>I can tell you for a fact that neither of us will ever sell those kinds of numbers. We both care too much about character and scene and good dialogue. We're dinosaurs. It's the age of twitter. The next big-selling book will be post-apocalyptic young adult vampire porn written completely in text-ese.</p>
<p>I can tell you for a fact that neither of us will ever sell those kinds of numbers. We both care too much about character and scene and good dialogue. We're dinosaurs. It's the age of twitter. The next big-selling book will be post-apocalyptic young adult vampire porn written completely in text-ese.</p>