What are some examples of crime literature that serves as deep social commentary? - CrimeSpace2024-03-28T16:51:25Zhttp://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/what-are-some-examples-of?x=1&id=537324%3ATopic%3A296838&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI take my work seriously. I d…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-07-08:537324:Comment:2986732011-07-08T05:01:10.715ZBenjamin Sobieckhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/BenjaminSobieck
I take my work seriously. I do not afford myself the same luxury.
I take my work seriously. I do not afford myself the same luxury. That was just plain boring. I…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-07-08:537324:Comment:2986702011-07-08T04:56:43.663ZBenjamin Sobieckhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/BenjaminSobieck
That was just plain boring. I know it's a classic and all, but I've got to be wet drunk to enjoy how dry it presents everything.<br/>
That was just plain boring. I know it's a classic and all, but I've got to be wet drunk to enjoy how dry it presents everything.<br/> All The President's Men. The…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-07-06:537324:Comment:2983262011-07-06T15:18:10.808ZMary McFarlandhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/MaryMcFarland
<em>All The President's Men. </em> The didactic--and horribly written--new journalism expose.
<em>All The President's Men. </em> The didactic--and horribly written--new journalism expose. It was the more recent stuff,…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-07-06:537324:Comment:2982962011-07-06T15:15:30.031ZMary McFarlandhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/MaryMcFarland
It was the more recent stuff, I.J., mostly lopsided myopic dystopian lit. Didn't care for it then and sure as heck don't care for it now, but it is a definite culprit, and much of it had seriously overt and embedded agendas. Or . . . maybe it was the idea that my profs' agendas got rammed down my throat. Hmmmmm.
It was the more recent stuff, I.J., mostly lopsided myopic dystopian lit. Didn't care for it then and sure as heck don't care for it now, but it is a definite culprit, and much of it had seriously overt and embedded agendas. Or . . . maybe it was the idea that my profs' agendas got rammed down my throat. Hmmmmm. Some of that title business i…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-07-06:537324:Comment:2982952011-07-06T15:05:40.739ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
<p>Some of that title business is the publisher's fault. They like to set up a series with recognizable titles. In my case, I was asked to change all of my titles to place names. I refused and didn't get another contract.</p>
<p>My aversion to agendas has something to do with the fact that I used to teach the research paper and we did that via controversial topics. A lot of agendas wandered across my desk. Particularly those that had been in the news quite a bit. Then I saw writers using the…</p>
<p>Some of that title business is the publisher's fault. They like to set up a series with recognizable titles. In my case, I was asked to change all of my titles to place names. I refused and didn't get another contract.</p>
<p>My aversion to agendas has something to do with the fact that I used to teach the research paper and we did that via controversial topics. A lot of agendas wandered across my desk. Particularly those that had been in the news quite a bit. Then I saw writers using the same subjects to flesh out their novels. It was strictly secondhand material, particularly for me.</p> I.J., Konrath touts his "anti…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-07-06:537324:Comment:2983062011-07-06T13:27:10.513ZMary McFarlandhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/MaryMcFarland
<p>I.J., Konrath touts his "antimessage, antisoapbox" writing, and oh boy, does he rant against those novels that deliver on the soapbox. </p>
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<p>I think you made a great point somewhere on this thread about novels that are too didactic and how it feels like the authors are hitting you on the head with their message. I agree: it's really how--not whether--the message is delivered. </p>
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<p>Honestly, just by making a choice to write about anything puts us in the position of…</p>
<p>I.J., Konrath touts his "antimessage, antisoapbox" writing, and oh boy, does he rant against those novels that deliver on the soapbox. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I think you made a great point somewhere on this thread about novels that are too didactic and how it feels like the authors are hitting you on the head with their message. I agree: it's really how--not whether--the message is delivered. </p>
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<p>Honestly, just by making a choice to write about anything puts us in the position of delivering a message. In Konrath's case, with the names of alcoholic drinks for titles, what do you <em>think</em> the stories are going to be about? And in my case, <em>Vengeance Is Mine: the Profiler's Passion</em>, and in your case, and in every writer's case . . . . Don't all of our choices of subjects reflect some message, whether it's overt or embedded in titles (as in Konrath's case), or somewhere our novels' content? </p> Haven't read Konrath's books…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-07-06:537324:Comment:2982932011-07-06T13:18:29.367ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Haven't read Konrath's books (not my sort of thing), but it seems to me that crime frequently is an intensely private thing that would preclude attention to social ills. It's, of course, also possible to commit a crime or solve it precisely because of one's stand on a particular issue.
Haven't read Konrath's books (not my sort of thing), but it seems to me that crime frequently is an intensely private thing that would preclude attention to social ills. It's, of course, also possible to commit a crime or solve it precisely because of one's stand on a particular issue. Alan, I used to be one of tho…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-07-06:537324:Comment:2982902011-07-06T12:41:52.482ZMary McFarlandhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/MaryMcFarland
<p>Alan, I used to be one of those "poets" who turned up her nose at quote-unquote: <em>crime fiction</em>, so I relate to your comment about the snooty attitude, and I--happily--have learned how sophomoric that stance is. I've since matured in my understanding of what constitutes "literature." </p>
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<p>You make a memorable point that many should heed: the label helps and hurts, so it comes down to writing our best, as if we're putting our grandkids through college, as if--I…</p>
<p>Alan, I used to be one of those "poets" who turned up her nose at quote-unquote: <em>crime fiction</em>, so I relate to your comment about the snooty attitude, and I--happily--have learned how sophomoric that stance is. I've since matured in my understanding of what constitutes "literature." </p>
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<p>You make a memorable point that many should heed: the label helps and hurts, so it comes down to writing our best, as if we're putting our grandkids through college, as if--I believe--our work will exist, and be read forever, by the best minds.</p>
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<p>I think the line between literature/crime has been blurred for myriad reasons, or that it exists artificially, as you point out, because of commercially misapplied <em>labels</em>. However, superb writing endures, regardless of the label. I think immediately of Stephen Hamilton's <em>The Lock Artist</em>. I've elucidated a few of the reasons why on my review blog. Not to shamelessly promote (this isn't the right spot on CS) but I wish to point you and all CSrs to my review blog so you can see why I think there is no true line between literature/crime, and to provide you an example. Here's the link: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.buzzardbone.blogspot.com/">www.buzzardbone.blogspot.com</a>. <em>The Lock Artist</em> doesn't have any moral per se, and I point that out, but it is a well-wrought piece of literary fiction, as well as crime fiction, and it's won the Edgar for its label: <em>YA mystery</em>. </p> I don't know that this is the…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-07-06:537324:Comment:2981802011-07-06T04:57:12.737ZNoir Nationhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/NoirNation
<p>I don't know that this is the place to get into such a discussion.</p>
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<p>However, my point was merely that any movement of populations, such as immigration by people of a certain religion, has positive and negative aspects. And it is the positive aspects that take longer to show. And by only focusing on the negative aspects blinds us to the possible wonderful contributions that same influx of people may bring. </p>
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<p>I (Alan, am speaking for myself here and not the…</p>
<p>I don't know that this is the place to get into such a discussion.</p>
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<p>However, my point was merely that any movement of populations, such as immigration by people of a certain religion, has positive and negative aspects. And it is the positive aspects that take longer to show. And by only focusing on the negative aspects blinds us to the possible wonderful contributions that same influx of people may bring. </p>
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<p>I (Alan, am speaking for myself here and not the other editors of NN) feel that your statement "The only thing of significance they [Muslims] have contributed to the world as a group is misery, since about 750 A.D. when Mohammad galvanized the culture, gave it a name, and prescribed subjugation and murder of those not like himself. And the morons bought it." Is a dangerous sentiment to hold. They said the same of Jews. The power hungry leaders of the Serbs said the same of "muslims" in Bosnia, even though many of those "muslims" where non-practicing completely secualr people who merely had traditionally muslim last names, and had never been to a Mosque in their lives. Islam is not the only religion that has factions that proscribe murder of those not like itself. Christianity in various forms has done that for just as long if not longer. </p>
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<p>What if, in terms of say Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland, I changed your statement to something like "The only thing of significance Christians have contributed to the world as a group is misery, since about 1500 A.D. when Martin Luther galvanized the culture, gave it a name, and prescribed yadda yadda yadda. And the morons bought it."</p>
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<p>Maybe it would be better to focus the scorn on religions plural, as Islam has not monopoly on horror, it only seems that way though the narrow historical window we are peering through. </p>
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<p>Post the passages of the Koran where it proscribes subjugation and Murder. I can post a couple from the Bible.</p> Ah yes, the didactic autobiog…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2011-07-04:537324:Comment:2978802011-07-04T13:21:01.813ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Ah yes, the didactic autobiography.
Ah yes, the didactic autobiography.