When is it Acceptable to Kill Children in Crime Fiction? - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T15:55:53Zhttp://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/when-is-it-acceptable-to-kill-children-in-crime-fiction?id=537324%3ATopic%3A332179&feed=yes&xn_auth=noWell, hopefully I can add a l…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-06-13:537324:Comment:3453342012-06-13T12:35:19.344ZJonathan Francescohttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JonathanFrancesco
<p>Well, hopefully I can add a literary agent and publishing house to that audience soon. lol</p>
<p>Well, hopefully I can add a literary agent and publishing house to that audience soon. lol</p> At the outset, all you really…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-06-13:537324:Comment:3454822012-06-13T11:49:59.689ZCaroline Trippehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<p>At the outset, all you really need is an audience of one--as long as it's the right one. :) </p>
<p>At the outset, all you really need is an audience of one--as long as it's the right one. :) </p> Well, I'm giving it my best g…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-06-11:537324:Comment:3451062012-06-11T12:30:25.314ZJonathan Francescohttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JonathanFrancesco
<p>Well, I'm giving it my best go anyway. And I am not sure my current audience can get much smaller. lol</p>
<p>Well, I'm giving it my best go anyway. And I am not sure my current audience can get much smaller. lol</p> And that what most writers an…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-06-11:537324:Comment:3452832012-06-11T12:05:17.755ZCaroline Trippehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<p>And that what most writers and artists want---an appreciative audience. :) Some are satisfied with a small appreciative audience, one that cares about quality work....others want more..... </p>
<p>Anyway, you are starting early---so you have plenty of time to explore your options. :)</p>
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<p>And that what most writers and artists want---an appreciative audience. :) Some are satisfied with a small appreciative audience, one that cares about quality work....others want more..... </p>
<p>Anyway, you are starting early---so you have plenty of time to explore your options. :)</p>
<p></p> I think I remember looking th…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-06-10:537324:Comment:3452712012-06-10T12:46:22.667ZJonathan Francescohttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JonathanFrancesco
<p>I think I remember looking that one up. I'll keep it in mind. Still not sure if I want my style to be similar to the industry or not. Either way, I suppose I just want my stories to find an appreciative audience. </p>
<p>I think I remember looking that one up. I'll keep it in mind. Still not sure if I want my style to be similar to the industry or not. Either way, I suppose I just want my stories to find an appreciative audience. </p> The George novel in question…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-06-10:537324:Comment:3450442012-06-10T11:04:59.975ZCaroline Trippehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<p>The George novel in question is "In the Presence of the Enemy." The kidnapped girl is ten years old.</p>
<p>The George novel in question is "In the Presence of the Enemy." The kidnapped girl is ten years old.</p> Well, some of my books do hav…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-06-06:537324:Comment:3447302012-06-06T15:08:12.325ZJonathan Francescohttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JonathanFrancesco
<p>Well, some of my books do have quite a high body count. (The non-crime ones are a bit easier on that, usually.) And I see what you're saying about too many bodies losing credibility. At the same time, a lot of my plots called for a lot of deaths. Was EVERY one ABSOLUTELY necessary? Eh, probably not. I am sure I COULD have done without every one. Yet, at the same time, each one seemed to fit pretty well within the plot I established. (One of which called for a few hundred victims. lol) My one…</p>
<p>Well, some of my books do have quite a high body count. (The non-crime ones are a bit easier on that, usually.) And I see what you're saying about too many bodies losing credibility. At the same time, a lot of my plots called for a lot of deaths. Was EVERY one ABSOLUTELY necessary? Eh, probably not. I am sure I COULD have done without every one. Yet, at the same time, each one seemed to fit pretty well within the plot I established. (One of which called for a few hundred victims. lol) My one serial killer definitely killed often within a pattern, yet I actually had him make a point to break it at one point to kind of show that he's not some computer program either. I liked him as a sadistic villain and so did a few of my readers. The rest of the killers in my crime series were not typical serial killers, I'd say. (ie not the guy who snaps and kills his wife.) So I think their body counts are pretty justified. </p>
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<p>I think stakes make suspense good for me. I do a little of piecing together the clues cause it's a necessity. But I never really found that part too suspenseful because it's essentially a given that they will figure it out. The confrontations always seemed the most exciting to me. I get to see the killer and the protagonist(s) actually play off of each other. Also, since my characters are never really safe, you never know who's gonna make it out. (Especially with the "guest" main characters of each novel.) I think it's pretty suspenseful. Of course, to me, I think the crimes are always almost secondary (even if they receive the most attention) to the character dynamics going on behind the scenes. I think I'd probably have less body counts if the crimes were paramount and it was "just another case." Probably just my own twisted takes though. lol</p>
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<p>I'll have to check out Elizabeth George. See if she's comparable. </p> Don't worry, I'm not a cat pe…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-06-06:537324:Comment:3447292012-06-06T14:58:45.955ZJonathan Francescohttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JonathanFrancesco
<p>Don't worry, I'm not a cat person so they don't end up in my books much. :P <br/><br/>I think you feel sorry for the kid too, to a point. Else it'd be okay to kill an orphan and I don't think killing an orphan would really go over too much better. But yes, it's more dramatic to have survivors to mourn the victims. No fun if everyone's dead.</p>
<p>Don't worry, I'm not a cat person so they don't end up in my books much. :P <br/><br/>I think you feel sorry for the kid too, to a point. Else it'd be okay to kill an orphan and I don't think killing an orphan would really go over too much better. But yes, it's more dramatic to have survivors to mourn the victims. No fun if everyone's dead.</p> Well, there was one Elizabeth…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-06-06:537324:Comment:3448202012-06-06T14:44:04.596ZCaroline Trippehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<p>Well, there was one Elizabeth George novel---I forget which one---I will look it up--in which a little girl is kidnapped, and eventually murdered. But before she is killed, George does let the reader in on the little girl's POV, so by the time the kidnapper kills her, you "know" her enough to be even more horrified at the death. I seem to recall the kidnapping/murder was revenge. I can't think of any others, but there's a lot I haven't read.</p>
<p>The discussion always comes to the…</p>
<p>Well, there was one Elizabeth George novel---I forget which one---I will look it up--in which a little girl is kidnapped, and eventually murdered. But before she is killed, George does let the reader in on the little girl's POV, so by the time the kidnapper kills her, you "know" her enough to be even more horrified at the death. I seem to recall the kidnapping/murder was revenge. I can't think of any others, but there's a lot I haven't read.</p>
<p>The discussion always comes to the point of whether or not the killings in a work of fiction serve a real purpose, or whether ot not they become gratuitous. Real life serial killers do commit multiple murders, but with a pattern. I always find it strains credulity to have too many bodies---killers who are not, in fact, serial killers, don't usually keep murdering people just to shut them up. :) The man who murders his wife won't murder his neighbor or his wife's best friend because he thinks they might "know" something---he's too busy defending his alibi for the one murder he really wanted to commit.</p>
<p>Of course there are the killers who go ballistic and kill their entire families---either in a rage, or to make it look like a robbery gone wrong. But that's not the same thing.</p>
<p><br/>Too many killings can detract from the suspense of a story. For me, the suspense is generated by the pursuit of the killer, the way the detective's mind is working to piece together the clues. High body counts tend to be a feature of "cozy school" mysteries--- a classic example would be Agatha Christie's "Ten Little Indians." But most cozy school writers like to off at least a few of their characters. :) Just for fun.</p> :) Just don't kill any cats.…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-06-06:537324:Comment:3447282012-06-06T14:19:15.810ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
<p>:) Just don't kill any cats. Maybe the horror is even greater when you kill kittens. I don't know about that. Actually, what's operative here is the relationship between the victim and someone in your book. In other words, it's not the kid you feel sorry for but the mother or father. Same with cats. Grown cats are more significant victims.</p>
<p>:) Just don't kill any cats. Maybe the horror is even greater when you kill kittens. I don't know about that. Actually, what's operative here is the relationship between the victim and someone in your book. In other words, it's not the kid you feel sorry for but the mother or father. Same with cats. Grown cats are more significant victims.</p>