Where do you stand? - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T06:15:40Zhttp://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/where-do-you-stand?x=1&id=537324%3ATopic%3A341680&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThis, too, is a fair estimate…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-05-01:537324:Comment:3419822012-05-01T13:16:24.009ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
<p>This, too, is a fair estimate of the current state of publishing. Yes, the previously published authors have fans in place. The same isn't true of new authors. New authors are trying to get pople to sample their books by offering them free or for 99 cents. Apparently, the reading public is getting a bit tired of the mass of such offerings. They are making negative comments about cheap books. Sometimes, they translate "cheap" or "free" automatically into "crap."</p>
<p>But the fact that…</p>
<p>This, too, is a fair estimate of the current state of publishing. Yes, the previously published authors have fans in place. The same isn't true of new authors. New authors are trying to get pople to sample their books by offering them free or for 99 cents. Apparently, the reading public is getting a bit tired of the mass of such offerings. They are making negative comments about cheap books. Sometimes, they translate "cheap" or "free" automatically into "crap."</p>
<p>But the fact that previously pubbed authors are taking their successful books the self-publishing route does mean that the same quality remains available on KDP and Pubit.</p> Something else occurred to me…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-05-01:537324:Comment:3419812012-05-01T07:29:11.431ZminervaKhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/minervakoenig
<p>Something else occurred to me on this topic today -- I think that established writers switching over to self-publishing probably have a completely different experience than new writers. People like Lawrence Block (and maybe Barry Eisler, too) must have a loyal readership that makes the switch a no-brainer, and their experience with self-publishing is surely very different from that of someone without a "name" in the business already. Thus, to them, it may look very much like traditional…</p>
<p>Something else occurred to me on this topic today -- I think that established writers switching over to self-publishing probably have a completely different experience than new writers. People like Lawrence Block (and maybe Barry Eisler, too) must have a loyal readership that makes the switch a no-brainer, and their experience with self-publishing is surely very different from that of someone without a "name" in the business already. Thus, to them, it may look very much like traditional publishing is on the way out, but I think that they're forgetting that most mature contemporary writers, being of a Certain Age, are coming to the self-publishing biz with a traditional-publishing-produced reputation already in place. I think it will be some years yet before anybody can say with certainty that the new system will produce the same quality of work.</p> Ah, yes. The waiting is part…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-04-30:537324:Comment:3417202012-04-30T14:51:21.378ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
<p>Ah, yes. The waiting is particularly miserable. Mind you, they want you to do the revising etc. in the shortest possible time. </p>
<p>Ah, yes. The waiting is particularly miserable. Mind you, they want you to do the revising etc. in the shortest possible time. </p> I agree. But I would say if y…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-04-30:537324:Comment:3417162012-04-30T13:59:56.293ZJohn McFetridgehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JohnMcF
<p>I agree. But I would say if you're going to include the "one in a million" in traditional publishing it should also be a pro in self-publishing as it has happened.</p>
<p>One other thing that Barry Eisler pointed out is the extra year or two of potential earning that a self-published gets in its life. It always seems to take so long for my publisher to bring out a book, at least six months after I hand it in and a couple of times to try and line up with the US publisher it took over a year.…</p>
<p>I agree. But I would say if you're going to include the "one in a million" in traditional publishing it should also be a pro in self-publishing as it has happened.</p>
<p>One other thing that Barry Eisler pointed out is the extra year or two of potential earning that a self-published gets in its life. It always seems to take so long for my publisher to bring out a book, at least six months after I hand it in and a couple of times to try and line up with the US publisher it took over a year. If you have to add to that another year (or more) of finding an agent and a publisher that may factor into your decision. </p>
<p> </p> Well, the 15% comes out of ea…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-04-30:537324:Comment:3418142012-04-30T13:48:47.521ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
<p>Well, the 15% comes out of earnings. These build rather slowly over time for the self-published author. I guess it would depend on the publicist. Few things that attract attention nationwide are free. Advertising costs money. Big money, if it's national.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Otherwise, I think you have the pros and and cons correct. Mind you, I spend minimal time publishing/promoting. The publishing doesn't take all that much time, and the promoting is pointless. What I do have that I…</p>
<p>Well, the 15% comes out of earnings. These build rather slowly over time for the self-published author. I guess it would depend on the publicist. Few things that attract attention nationwide are free. Advertising costs money. Big money, if it's national.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Otherwise, I think you have the pros and and cons correct. Mind you, I spend minimal time publishing/promoting. The publishing doesn't take all that much time, and the promoting is pointless. What I do have that I didn't have before is peace of mind. No more gnawing my fingernails or seething at the latest humiliating or damaging move on the part of the publishing system.</p> I'm just as confused as ever…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-04-30:537324:Comment:3418052012-04-30T05:31:32.439ZminervaKhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/minervakoenig
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<dd><div class="description" id="desc_537324Comment341948"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I'm just as confused as everybody else on this subject, which is a bummer since I'm currently trying to publish my first novel. I'm currently querying literary agents, but feeling pretty ambivalent about the whole thing. From what I've read, every method of publishing has its pros and cons, and each writer has to figure out which method is going to be most…</p>
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<dd><div class="description" id="desc_537324Comment341948"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I'm just as confused as everybody else on this subject, which is a bummer since I'm currently trying to publish my first novel. I'm currently querying literary agents, but feeling pretty ambivalent about the whole thing. From what I've read, every method of publishing has its pros and cons, and each writer has to figure out which method is going to be most suitable for his/her personality and the kind of work s/he is doing. Unfortunately, it's difficult to tell, just from reading, what those pros/cons actually ARE. There's so much sour grapes and self promotional cheerleading to wade through to get to the truth. However, from what I can glean, the pros / cons seem to stack up like this:</p>
<p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Big 6 / standard publishing model</span></p>
<p>Pros: national exposure, fairly big bucks if you hit the one in a million chance, creative validation</p>
<p>Cons: lack of creative control, agents/publishers take a big chunk of your income</p>
<p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Self-publish</span></p>
<p>Pros: complete creative control, you get to keep all the money</p>
<p>Cons: you spend less time writing and more time publishing, hard to make a dent in the market</p>
<p>The small / indie publisher route seems to fall somewhere between these two.</p>
<p>I have often wondered what would happen if a writer were to self-publish, and spend the 15% she would have paid an agent to hire a publicist.</p>
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</dl> This topic is all the buzz ev…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-04-29:537324:Comment:3415432012-04-29T13:36:01.615ZJohn Desjarlaishttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JohnDesjarlais
<p>This topic is all the buzz everywhere else in the mystery-sphere. I've been traditionally-published 4 times, twice with larger houses and the last two times with a small house (where I was quite happy). However, this small house has made it clear that they are closing their fiction line and I know I need to go elsewhere for my next book. It is the third entry in a series and I know traditional publishers (and agents) do not like to pick up series in the middle. Thus, I'm carefully monitoring…</p>
<p>This topic is all the buzz everywhere else in the mystery-sphere. I've been traditionally-published 4 times, twice with larger houses and the last two times with a small house (where I was quite happy). However, this small house has made it clear that they are closing their fiction line and I know I need to go elsewhere for my next book. It is the third entry in a series and I know traditional publishers (and agents) do not like to pick up series in the middle. Thus, I'm carefully monitoring these discussions and seriously interested in going the Smashwords/Kindle route. I'll experiment this summer by uploading short stories to Kindle, just to see how it works. I hope to have a book ready to pitch to agents at a conference in Spring 2013 - just to cover my bases - and if I don't get any action to my liking, I'll surely go with the self-pubbed ebook. And hey - if it takes off and a legacy publisher wants to pick it up and make an offer, I'll listen. I'm not much of an entrepreneur, but I worked very hard at promotion for my last two books and I know that whichever route I go - legacy big/small house, self-pub - I will still be responsible for the promotion.</p> "it seems to be a popularity…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-04-26:537324:Comment:3416902012-04-26T17:08:44.747ZDana Kinghttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/DanaKing
<p>"<span>it seems to be a popularity contest"</span></p>
<p><span>Of course it's a popularity contest. Books that aren't popular don't sell, and no one makes any money. The trick is to write a book that's popular AND good. The question every author has to answer for him or herself is, "Where is the balance point between my purity and my profit?" Some people can be true to themselves and still strike the public's fancy, writing the books they want to write and making money from it. (That's not…</span></p>
<p>"<span>it seems to be a popularity contest"</span></p>
<p><span>Of course it's a popularity contest. Books that aren't popular don't sell, and no one makes any money. The trick is to write a book that's popular AND good. The question every author has to answer for him or herself is, "Where is the balance point between my purity and my profit?" Some people can be true to themselves and still strike the public's fancy, writing the books they want to write and making money from it. (That's not an insult.)</span></p>
<p><span>A year ago i decided the reward to bullshit ratio wasn't in my favor regarding traditional publishing, so i went direct to Kindle and sold about 40 copies. I'm good with that. It would be nice if more sold, but not so nice I'd change my life for it.</span></p>
<p><span>Everyone is different.</span></p> Thanks for all the sensible c…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-04-26:537324:Comment:3416872012-04-26T16:21:37.962ZKeith Dixonhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Keithyd
<p>Thanks for all the sensible comments and advice. I've been published on Lulu.com now for about 5 years and recently switched to <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Keith-Dixon/e/B0034OO9BK/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1335265408&sr=1-1" target="_blank">CreateSpace for my 2 paper-based books, and Kindle for the ebook</a>. I'm selling about 10 copies a month and I'm actually owed money by people like Smashwords but haven't reached their threshold for payment yet.</p>
<p>But it's funny, I don't…</p>
<p>Thanks for all the sensible comments and advice. I've been published on Lulu.com now for about 5 years and recently switched to <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Keith-Dixon/e/B0034OO9BK/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1335265408&sr=1-1" target="_blank">CreateSpace for my 2 paper-based books, and Kindle for the ebook</a>. I'm selling about 10 copies a month and I'm actually owed money by people like Smashwords but haven't reached their threshold for payment yet.</p>
<p>But it's funny, I don't consider myself to be a published author because of course I did the publishing. I agree with J.E. - it seems to be a popularity contest. I know successful authors say that a good book will 'find its readers' - but history is littered with good writers who didn't or nearly didn't, but for happenstance or good fortune. Do I want to wait till I die before I'm discovered?</p>
<p>Anyway I'm currently staying in France and writing every day, halfway through my third novel and writing <a href="http://cwconfidential.blogspot.com" target="_blank">my blog</a> as a way to build a profile. We'll see.</p> My opinion. The Big 6 and tr…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-04-26:537324:Comment:3415952012-04-26T15:04:03.169ZBrian Hoffmanhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/BrianHoffman
<p>My opinion. The Big 6 and tree books are fading into the past, at least for fiction. Non-fiction may be different, I don't know. The future is murky. It comes down to where you want to put your time and energy. I've looked for agents and publishers with little payoff. My first <a href="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=%22the+18th+Scroll%22+b.a.+hoffman" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">book</a> is on Amazon and I'm selling a few copies.…</p>
<p>My opinion. The Big 6 and tree books are fading into the past, at least for fiction. Non-fiction may be different, I don't know. The future is murky. It comes down to where you want to put your time and energy. I've looked for agents and publishers with little payoff. My first <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=%22the+18th+Scroll%22+b.a.+hoffman" target="_blank">book</a> is on Amazon and I'm selling a few copies. Not enough. I've decided that I'll be better off to continue learning how to market it myself. This part of being a author isn't fun.</p>
<p>What tipped the scales for me is the ever increasing sales of Kindle, Ipad, and the others. Each one sold means a potential reader for my work. Add to that, we can reach the entire world through Amazon, iTunes, Smashwords, and all the other sources of e-books. </p>
<p>All of us are in the middle of figuring how the new world of writing and publishing will work. This forum is important as we hash it all out.</p>