Comments - What this country needs . . . - CrimeSpace2024-03-28T22:57:49Zhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profiles/comment/feed?attachedTo=537324%3ABlogPost%3A180735&xn_auth=noWell, that's very kind. But I…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-02-09:537324:Comment:1809952009-02-09T18:36:27.484ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Well, that's very kind. But I'm afraid I also have some pretty flat villains, though I try occasionally to find some human reason for their actions. I think our problem has to do with the very unsettling effect of showing someone murdered by someone else who was put into a hopeless situation by parents or society or some other abuser. Punishing (catching) such a man is going to make our protagonist look like a heartless monster.
Well, that's very kind. But I'm afraid I also have some pretty flat villains, though I try occasionally to find some human reason for their actions. I think our problem has to do with the very unsettling effect of showing someone murdered by someone else who was put into a hopeless situation by parents or society or some other abuser. Punishing (catching) such a man is going to make our protagonist look like a heartless monster. I.J. I agree with you and I'm…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-02-09:537324:Comment:1809382009-02-09T16:16:22.519ZTom Cookehttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/TomCooke
I.J. I agree with you and I'm one of the worst offenders. My protags are pretty well filled out and defined since most of my work is first person narration but my villains are usually more of a plot device than a character. I'm so glad you're around to tweak our conscience's once in a while.
I.J. I agree with you and I'm one of the worst offenders. My protags are pretty well filled out and defined since most of my work is first person narration but my villains are usually more of a plot device than a character. I'm so glad you're around to tweak our conscience's once in a while. Hard-boiled and noir are both…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-02-09:537324:Comment:1808892009-02-09T14:35:13.158ZI. J. Parkerhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Hard-boiled and noir are both well. So the older types of detective fiction still flourish. That is no reason why other forms should not also evolve. Unflawed characters are flat, as far as I'm concerned. In the crime genre we're already forced to deal with villains who don't have much except villainy in their make-up. Let's have a more complex protagonist at least.
Hard-boiled and noir are both well. So the older types of detective fiction still flourish. That is no reason why other forms should not also evolve. Unflawed characters are flat, as far as I'm concerned. In the crime genre we're already forced to deal with villains who don't have much except villainy in their make-up. Let's have a more complex protagonist at least. Ann
Barry Eisler, eh? I'll l…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-02-09:537324:Comment:1808582009-02-09T12:50:04.246ZB.R.Statehamhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/BRStateham
Ann<br />
<br />
Barry Eisler, eh? I'll look him up!
Ann<br />
<br />
Barry Eisler, eh? I'll look him up! Just a girly girl here, but I…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-02-09:537324:Comment:1808222009-02-09T05:28:45.094ZAnn Littlewoodhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/AnnLittlewood
Just a girly girl here, but I do like Barry Eisler's John Rain character--tough and fun. Give him a try if you haven't.
Just a girly girl here, but I do like Barry Eisler's John Rain character--tough and fun. Give him a try if you haven't. Jon,
I'm trying in the book…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-02-09:537324:Comment:1807672009-02-09T03:15:35.058ZB.R.Statehamhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/BRStateham
Jon,<br />
<br />
I'm trying in the book I have out. You write one, and I'll buy it, buddy!
Jon,<br />
<br />
I'm trying in the book I have out. You write one, and I'll buy it, buddy! Hey,B.R.,
I think that's tru…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-02-09:537324:Comment:1807652009-02-09T03:13:38.805ZJon Loomishttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JonLoomis
Hey,B.R.,<br />
<br />
I think that's true, and guys like Robert Parker and John D MacDonald sold a bunch of books operating on that premise. If they could do it, there's no reason it couldn't be done again. It's just a matter of finding the right character: he'd have to be engaging and smart and funny, along with that toughness.
Hey,B.R.,<br />
<br />
I think that's true, and guys like Robert Parker and John D MacDonald sold a bunch of books operating on that premise. If they could do it, there's no reason it couldn't be done again. It's just a matter of finding the right character: he'd have to be engaging and smart and funny, along with that toughness. Jon
The point is, I think th…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-02-09:537324:Comment:1807622009-02-09T03:09:22.553ZB.R.Statehamhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/BRStateham
Jon<br />
<br />
The point is, I think there is a huge audience out there of post WWII males who are looking for a modernized -and flawed-Phillip Marlowe. Not a copy of a clone, but a tough guy accustomed to the 21st century.
Jon<br />
<br />
The point is, I think there is a huge audience out there of post WWII males who are looking for a modernized -and flawed-Phillip Marlowe. Not a copy of a clone, but a tough guy accustomed to the 21st century. Well, the perceived need for…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-02-09:537324:Comment:1807602009-02-09T03:04:21.384ZJon Loomishttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JonLoomis
Well, the perceived need for flawed heroes goes all the way back to Greek mythology and/or Superman, whichever came first. A hero who's invulnerable would be pretty uninteresting, after all. And I think the way the culture perceives men has really changed over the last generation or two--not for the better, either. The tough competence of the WWII vet has been replaced by something a lot less sure of itself and, in some ways, a lot less engaging--at least for me. But that's the package we're…
Well, the perceived need for flawed heroes goes all the way back to Greek mythology and/or Superman, whichever came first. A hero who's invulnerable would be pretty uninteresting, after all. And I think the way the culture perceives men has really changed over the last generation or two--not for the better, either. The tough competence of the WWII vet has been replaced by something a lot less sure of itself and, in some ways, a lot less engaging--at least for me. But that's the package we're given: how do you give a character born in the post-war period the same steely gaze and tough talk as Marlowe? It'd be ludicrous, right? Dana. I agree.
We can create…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-02-09:537324:Comment:1807472009-02-09T02:47:08.859ZB.R.Statehamhttp://crimespace.ning.com/profile/BRStateham
Dana. I agree.<br />
<br />
We can create a 21st Century tough-guy who is truly unique and not so emotionally traumatized as Chandler's creation was.<br />
<br />
The hope is more writers will try to create their visions. I know I'm trying
Dana. I agree.<br />
<br />
We can create a 21st Century tough-guy who is truly unique and not so emotionally traumatized as Chandler's creation was.<br />
<br />
The hope is more writers will try to create their visions. I know I'm trying