Starting Dark - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T09:41:15Zhttps://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/537324:Topic:13004?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A13643&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThis is really a genre with l…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-27:537324:Comment:137632007-03-27T10:53:48.063ZPatricia Abbotthttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/pattinase
This is really a genre with lots of corners, isn't it? Dark and light ones. When I say dark, I mean more that my character is dark, not necessarily what happens in the book. <br />
I like the classic mysteries very much too. Probably not ones where cats solve crimes though.
This is really a genre with lots of corners, isn't it? Dark and light ones. When I say dark, I mean more that my character is dark, not necessarily what happens in the book. <br />
I like the classic mysteries very much too. Probably not ones where cats solve crimes though. I worked as a journalist for…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-27:537324:Comment:137242007-03-27T07:32:17.972Zp. b. smithhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/IveyHunter
I worked as a journalist for more than 20 years, in newspapers, then magazines and finally in TV. I got an overdose of real world dark during those years, and now purposely seek light as an antidote.<br />
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When it comes to reading mysteries, I much prefer light. I enjoy cozies and read them like candy. The only heavy things I read are some older novels, classics really, and the occasional true crime story. But the way my brain is wired, I always end up feeling upset when I allow myself to get drawn…
I worked as a journalist for more than 20 years, in newspapers, then magazines and finally in TV. I got an overdose of real world dark during those years, and now purposely seek light as an antidote.<br />
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When it comes to reading mysteries, I much prefer light. I enjoy cozies and read them like candy. The only heavy things I read are some older novels, classics really, and the occasional true crime story. But the way my brain is wired, I always end up feeling upset when I allow myself to get drawn into a really dark story. I sometimes remind myself of that sentient, Vina, in the original Star Trek pilot, "The Menagerie." I just feel things too strongly to be able to comfortably read about a lot of brutality, sadism and gore.<br />
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Having said that, there is a huge market for dark, but I agree with Angie; humor is just the leavening you need to help a dark tale rise to its full potential. Now this is interesting. From…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-27:537324:Comment:136432007-03-27T02:29:26.556ZStephen Blackmoorehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/sblackmoore
Now this is interesting. From the standpoint of equal rights, hypocrisy and so on, this is a reality that blows monkey chunks. From a fiction perspective, though, this is conflict gold. Not only is your protag struggling with, well, whatever she's struggling with, she also gets to deal with this shit on top of it.<br />
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I have to think sometimes that it's less about whether your characters are likable and more that they have struggles people can identify with on some level. I'm probably splitting…
Now this is interesting. From the standpoint of equal rights, hypocrisy and so on, this is a reality that blows monkey chunks. From a fiction perspective, though, this is conflict gold. Not only is your protag struggling with, well, whatever she's struggling with, she also gets to deal with this shit on top of it.<br />
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I have to think sometimes that it's less about whether your characters are likable and more that they have struggles people can identify with on some level. I'm probably splitting hairs here, but I'm not talking about empathy. The opposite of schaedenfreude, maybe.<br />
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When everything's so dark, I don't think it's the character that the reader necessarily needs to connect with, so much as her struggles. I can't get into Sisyphus' head, but I can sure as hell relate to having to haul that goddamn rock back up the hill.<br />
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Or, maybe I'm just talkin' out my ass, here. And the thought occured to me…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-26:537324:Comment:133822007-03-26T21:17:31.809ZPatricia Abbotthttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/pattinase
And the thought occured to me today, would Hilary Clinton be allowed to proceed on her run for the presidency if Bill had cancer. I think not. A woman would be expected to give it up to nurse him--even in a marriage as difficult as theirs.
And the thought occured to me today, would Hilary Clinton be allowed to proceed on her run for the presidency if Bill had cancer. I think not. A woman would be expected to give it up to nurse him--even in a marriage as difficult as theirs. "If she were a man, no one wo…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-26:537324:Comment:133802007-03-26T21:14:01.054ZLibby Hellmannhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Libbyfh
"If she were a man, no one would think anything about it..."<br />
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That's EXACTLY what I was getting at Patricia. Male protagonists are allowed to be seriously flawed.... and their search for redemption is almost tacitly understood... female protags aren't as dark -- okay, there are more today than there were 10 years ago... but female protagonists up until recently seemed to want recognition and respect, as much, if not more than redemption. Unfortunately, I havent' found that to be as compelling…
"If she were a man, no one would think anything about it..." <br />
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That's EXACTLY what I was getting at Patricia. Male protagonists are allowed to be seriously flawed.... and their search for redemption is almost tacitly understood... female protags aren't as dark -- okay, there are more today than there were 10 years ago... but female protagonists up until recently seemed to want recognition and respect, as much, if not more than redemption. Unfortunately, I havent' found that to be as compelling a need. Or read. <br />
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I would be thrilled to be proven wrong. I hope I am establishing good…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-26:537324:Comment:133572007-03-26T20:27:11.016ZPatricia Abbotthttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/pattinase
I hope I am establishing good reasons why she is dark. And what's transpiring is not so dark yet. No mutilations or torture certainly. It's more the atmosphere she creates around her. I think if she were a man, no one would think anything about it. <br />
But how do you help from falling in love with your protagonist and wanting the best for him/her when it's the worst that make the better boo? That's what I'm wrestling with. Thanks for all the help.
I hope I am establishing good reasons why she is dark. And what's transpiring is not so dark yet. No mutilations or torture certainly. It's more the atmosphere she creates around her. I think if she were a man, no one would think anything about it. <br />
But how do you help from falling in love with your protagonist and wanting the best for him/her when it's the worst that make the better boo? That's what I'm wrestling with. Thanks for all the help. Unless you've got her locked…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-26:537324:Comment:133512007-03-26T20:18:21.054Znorbyhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/norby871
Unless you've got her locked in a room being tortured day after day, I don't know that there is a too dark. I'm thinking about Every Dead Thing by John Connolly-the book starts with Charlie Parker's family being brutally murdered and Parker's life really doesn't improve throughout the book. He carries his guilt over being in a bar rather than at home with him like a sack of concrete wherever he goes and it affects his every thought. The cruelty of the crimes involved in the book just make it…
Unless you've got her locked in a room being tortured day after day, I don't know that there is a too dark. I'm thinking about Every Dead Thing by John Connolly-the book starts with Charlie Parker's family being brutally murdered and Parker's life really doesn't improve throughout the book. He carries his guilt over being in a bar rather than at home with him like a sack of concrete wherever he goes and it affects his every thought. The cruelty of the crimes involved in the book just make it worse. But the book works and it's a fantastic book-you can't put it down. I think it depends on how muc…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-26:537324:Comment:133402007-03-26T20:01:47.283ZCharles A. Kinghttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/jeeks43
I think it depends on how much of human being they are. There has to be some quality that readers can identify with, or the character is maybe just entertaining, and in some cases as entertaining as watching a train wreck, so they keep reading. Or the plot causes the reader to keep reading. Or your writing group is wrong. Or maybe they're right, and one possible solution would be to give this character an effective mirror character, someone that calls her on her darkness, or challenges her by…
I think it depends on how much of human being they are. There has to be some quality that readers can identify with, or the character is maybe just entertaining, and in some cases as entertaining as watching a train wreck, so they keep reading. Or the plot causes the reader to keep reading. Or your writing group is wrong. Or maybe they're right, and one possible solution would be to give this character an effective mirror character, someone that calls her on her darkness, or challenges her by the mirror's more positive (light) actions. Kind of foil character, or maybe sage like, or maybe the mirror character is in the dark character's head. <br />
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Overall, I have to say I like dark characters, so maybe giving her more than a few chapters to shine (no pun intended) would be advisable. Humor is the key even if it i…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-26:537324:Comment:133252007-03-26T19:45:28.693ZBrianLindenmuthhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/BrianL
Humor is the key even if it is of the blackest kind. I let my mom read The Guards last year and she loved it. I bring this up only because she is about the coziest reader that you have ever met.
Humor is the key even if it is of the blackest kind. I let my mom read The Guards last year and she loved it. I bring this up only because she is about the coziest reader that you have ever met. I don't mind dark, and I agre…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-26:537324:Comment:132922007-03-26T19:12:50.618ZSandra Ruttanhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Sandramre
I don't mind dark, and I agree with Angie, insert bits of humour and it works. I mean, Bruen is dark. AMERICAN SKIN, the Jack Taylor books, hell HACKMAN BLUES... Dark yet brilliant. No problem keeping me on board.
I don't mind dark, and I agree with Angie, insert bits of humour and it works. I mean, Bruen is dark. AMERICAN SKIN, the Jack Taylor books, hell HACKMAN BLUES... Dark yet brilliant. No problem keeping me on board.