What does over-written mean? - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T09:18:01Zhttps://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/537324:Topic:143712?id=537324%3ATopic%3A143712&feed=yes&xn_auth=noyou're very welcome
and the b…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-09:537324:Comment:1548692008-08-09T09:05:43.682Zcarole gillhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/PhyllisDietrichson
you're very welcome<br />
and the best of luck, Roger.<br />
that books is a tough, no nonsense book.<br />
I'm going through my m.s. now with a samuri sword.<br />
I realize that I can easily go overboard, but I'm trying not to.<br />
I just feel that there's no point in my kidding myself about what's going to be marketable and what isn't.<br />
truthfully, even before I read his book, I cut pages and characters because they weren't really integral.<br />
I don't believe in a wasted word, let alone a paragraph.<br />
having said that, it's…
you're very welcome<br />
and the best of luck, Roger.<br />
that books is a tough, no nonsense book.<br />
I'm going through my m.s. now with a samuri sword.<br />
I realize that I can easily go overboard, but I'm trying not to.<br />
I just feel that there's no point in my kidding myself about what's going to be marketable and what isn't.<br />
truthfully, even before I read his book, I cut pages and characters because they weren't really integral.<br />
I don't believe in a wasted word, let alone a paragraph.<br />
having said that, it's crime fiction--I don't think it applies to other fiction. Your writing might be a slightly different genre than mine. so take it with the old pinch of s.<br />
but read it anyway. i think it's a must. Cheers Carole, I'll look out…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-09:537324:Comment:1548672008-08-09T08:51:11.127ZRoger Newburyhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/TrubbleBrewin
Cheers Carole, I'll look out for that.<br />
<br />
My own opinion though is that I feel agents are often over-cautious about their opinions on a new writer's work.<br />
Obviously, I feel that my material or idea is strong enough and original enough to warrant a better degree of review than it's likely to get! But, obviously others feel differently! I've had people I hardly know read some of my short stories, and they've liked them, both from a reader's perspective as well as fellow writers.<br />
<br />
I'm working on a…
Cheers Carole, I'll look out for that.<br />
<br />
My own opinion though is that I feel agents are often over-cautious about their opinions on a new writer's work.<br />
Obviously, I feel that my material or idea is strong enough and original enough to warrant a better degree of review than it's likely to get! But, obviously others feel differently! I've had people I hardly know read some of my short stories, and they've liked them, both from a reader's perspective as well as fellow writers.<br />
<br />
I'm working on a science fiction story at the moment, which inbcorporates some crime as well, but the two police officers have also now been given a story all to themselves in another novel I'm building. It's funny how creating characters for one story, have grown in such a short time in my imagination, to warrant me generating a story for them! Crazzee! But then that's how my mind works.<br />
<br />
I'm going to seek out that book. Thanks once again.<br />
<br />
Roger thanks Roger.
Just want to te…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-08:537324:Comment:1546982008-08-08T14:57:23.600Zcarole gillhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/PhyllisDietrichson
thanks Roger.<br />
Just want to tell you about a book I got.<br />
I find it very helpful.<br />
It's really good for when you begin your self-editing.<br />
Literay Agent Noah Lukeman wrote a book called The First Five Pages.<br />
it's not literally about the first five pages--the point is that editors and others rarely look past the first five, and mostly a lot fewer pages--before tossing our golden child onto the reject pile.<br />
I find the book amazing. I think reading a book an Agent wrote is extremely helpful. we should…
thanks Roger.<br />
Just want to tell you about a book I got.<br />
I find it very helpful.<br />
It's really good for when you begin your self-editing.<br />
Literay Agent Noah Lukeman wrote a book called The First Five Pages.<br />
it's not literally about the first five pages--the point is that editors and others rarely look past the first five, and mostly a lot fewer pages--before tossing our golden child onto the reject pile.<br />
I find the book amazing. I think reading a book an Agent wrote is extremely helpful. we should know as much as possible about what works and what doesn't work. Kidding ourselves is just not going to help.<br />
Got the book through Amazon uk. read half of it yesterday. it's really worth it. Hi Carole,
Firstly I'd like…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-08:537324:Comment:1546922008-08-08T14:16:59.273ZRoger Newburyhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/TrubbleBrewin
Hi Carole,<br />
<br />
Firstly I'd like to apologise if my reply seemed arrogant. What I really feel is that if an author's work appears to be too wordy, or possibly too lacking in descriptive material, surely it's the job of the publisher to decide what is needed to make the manuscript marketable.<br />
Given that 'trends' and 'styles' change regularly, I think that the author he or she, should be given the benefit of the doubt, especially if like me (an as yet unpublished writer) who is in effect trying to…
Hi Carole,<br />
<br />
Firstly I'd like to apologise if my reply seemed arrogant. What I really feel is that if an author's work appears to be too wordy, or possibly too lacking in descriptive material, surely it's the job of the publisher to decide what is needed to make the manuscript marketable.<br />
Given that 'trends' and 'styles' change regularly, I think that the author he or she, should be given the benefit of the doubt, especially if like me (an as yet unpublished writer) who is in effect trying to impress, being too wordy/descriptive gives the publisher/editor the chance to whittle down any excessive wordage, to make the story work.<br />
Perhaps this is better than the story not having enough plot/characterization or descriptive elements, and the publisher/editor finds the story seriously lacking!!<br />
<br />
Just another couple of thoughts of mine! Bet this stirs the discussion!! yes I agree but I think there…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-05:537324:Comment:1542982008-08-05T13:31:28.229Zcarole gillhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/PhyllisDietrichson
yes I agree but I think there are those who do overwrite--<br />
getting a bit wordy or too detailed.<br />
But as you say, we are all different so perhaps what's too much for me isn't for someone else.<br />
thank you Roger.
yes I agree but I think there are those who do overwrite--<br />
getting a bit wordy or too detailed.<br />
But as you say, we are all different so perhaps what's too much for me isn't for someone else.<br />
thank you Roger. As for not making the reader…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-05:537324:Comment:1542962008-08-05T13:31:20.317ZI. J. Parkerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
As for not making the reader think too much (worthy effort in an increasingly illiterate and unimaginative world), I'm afraid you're shooting yourself in the foot by giving them all those extra words to ponder.
As for not making the reader think too much (worthy effort in an increasingly illiterate and unimaginative world), I'm afraid you're shooting yourself in the foot by giving them all those extra words to ponder. I understand that being a wri…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-08-05:537324:Comment:1542822008-08-05T12:54:22.947ZRoger Newburyhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/TrubbleBrewin
I understand that being a writer(author of sorts), you try to make it easy for the reader not to have to think too much, and imagine the scene or how the characters look.<br />
I've tried to cut down on the descriptives in my work, so that the reader can put their own ideas of how the characters look in their own mind. But, I've recently read Simon kernick's 'Relentless' and I think it was adequately descriptive without being over done. I don't really think a book can be overwritten as readers are…
I understand that being a writer(author of sorts), you try to make it easy for the reader not to have to think too much, and imagine the scene or how the characters look.<br />
I've tried to cut down on the descriptives in my work, so that the reader can put their own ideas of how the characters look in their own mind. But, I've recently read Simon kernick's 'Relentless' and I think it was adequately descriptive without being over done. I don't really think a book can be overwritten as readers are different, some like more detail whereas some prefer less.<br />
Just me I suppose. agree.
no slow down at all!
I…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-07-31:537324:Comment:1537702008-07-31T06:09:56.964Zcarole gillhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/PhyllisDietrichson
agree.<br />
no slow down at all!<br />
I think we want to be swept away--nearly breathless waiting to see what the end will be--and then when it happens--we're there just long enough to take it in--etc.<br />
and yes, so true it is the last thing we're left with.<br />
btw this only concerned finished works--completed books etc.<br />
thanks i.j.
agree.<br />
no slow down at all!<br />
I think we want to be swept away--nearly breathless waiting to see what the end will be--and then when it happens--we're there just long enough to take it in--etc.<br />
and yes, so true it is the last thing we're left with.<br />
btw this only concerned finished works--completed books etc.<br />
thanks i.j. Well, I was still thinking ab…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-07-30:537324:Comment:1537332008-07-30T21:41:12.060ZI. J. Parkerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Well, I was still thinking about revising and expected that this referred to making changes and deleting text (writing over the existing version), rather than saving eachy draft.<br />
However, in this sense, it means a slow, wordy book to me. I've been bothered by novels that, though otherwise good, slow down at the end until it seems it will never stop. Very irritating -- as if the author wanted a certain number of words or protract the suspense. Writers need to consider that the end of the book is…
Well, I was still thinking about revising and expected that this referred to making changes and deleting text (writing over the existing version), rather than saving eachy draft.<br />
However, in this sense, it means a slow, wordy book to me. I've been bothered by novels that, though otherwise good, slow down at the end until it seems it will never stop. Very irritating -- as if the author wanted a certain number of words or protract the suspense. Writers need to consider that the end of the book is what most readers remember best. thanks! at the moment (yes,…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2008-07-30:537324:Comment:1537012008-07-30T19:41:07.102Zcarole gillhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/PhyllisDietrichson
<p style="text-align: left;"><img alt="" height="150" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/33607130?profile=original" width="200"></img></p>
thanks! at the moment (yes, this very moment) I am revising for my final draft of my w.i.p.<br />
and I am so aware of getting the balance right on setting and descriptions--and then I read your reply to this and yes! it's all about balance, isn't it? Balance relating to all those aspects that make or break a novel.<br />
It is a fine line to tread. I would find history and detailed background info as you gave in your book very interesting.<br />
and no, it doesn't…
<p style="text-align: left;"><img src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/33607130?profile=original" alt="" width="200" height="150"/></p>
thanks! at the moment (yes, this very moment) I am revising for my final draft of my w.i.p.<br />
and I am so aware of getting the balance right on setting and descriptions--and then I read your reply to this and yes! it's all about balance, isn't it? Balance relating to all those aspects that make or break a novel.<br />
It is a fine line to tread. I would find history and detailed background info as you gave in your book very interesting.<br />
and no, it doesn't sound over-written at all, but I know what you mean--some books--probably the one you just read was over-written.<br />
You know, there's a comedy show over here called Little Britain and one of the most hysterical things on it was a spoof of Barbara Cartland--they have "Barbara" dictating from her sofa (eating bon bons) to her secretary--she keeps asking her what the word count is and when it's not enough she says--"well do be a darling, and just put in some pages of the phone book, dear!"<br />
Padding--I guess is overwriting--!<br />
thanks for your reply and I doubt anyone has ever nodded off reading your work! Mine maybe, but not yours!