Is BSP Really Necessary? - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T15:54:43Zhttps://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/537324:Topic:15827?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A15873&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI'm certainly not for Blatant…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-04-10:537324:Comment:213642007-04-10T00:10:32.204ZCharles Kellyhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/pulpnoir
I'm certainly not for Blatant Self-Promotion. God forbid. But I'm all for self promotion. If a writer is pushy, that's going to turn me off. But I want to know if you've written a book, and I'd like to see a sample of it. Isn't that part of the fun?
I'm certainly not for Blatant Self-Promotion. God forbid. But I'm all for self promotion. If a writer is pushy, that's going to turn me off. But I want to know if you've written a book, and I'd like to see a sample of it. Isn't that part of the fun? A certain amount of self publ…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-04-07:537324:Comment:195222007-04-07T00:29:14.074ZMorgan Mandelhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/morganmandel
A certain amount of self publicity is expected, such as in signatures in e-mails and on e-groups, but overly long ones are ridiculous and get in the way. We have to get our brands out there somehow and if it's cheap or free, we need to go for it. I don't care for the in-your-face stuff, although at a first introduction to a group I don't see anything wrong with listing accomplishments, etc. After all, marketing these days is the author's job, unless one is elite enough to have a publisher back…
A certain amount of self publicity is expected, such as in signatures in e-mails and on e-groups, but overly long ones are ridiculous and get in the way. We have to get our brands out there somehow and if it's cheap or free, we need to go for it. I don't care for the in-your-face stuff, although at a first introduction to a group I don't see anything wrong with listing accomplishments, etc. After all, marketing these days is the author's job, unless one is elite enough to have a publisher back you. That doesn't happen often. <br />
Morgan Mandel Ahhhhh sweet BSP.
Here's a d…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-04-06:537324:Comment:191412007-04-06T05:52:12.485ZBrian Thorntonhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/BrianThornton
Ahhhhh sweet BSP.<br />
<br />
Here's a different angle for ya. Let's say that you're trying to get your writing career off the ground, and you're using short stories to get some cred in order to get the right agent/editor/guru to pick up your stuff. Let's further say that you find a writers' group on the web (thank you Yahoo for hosting) that is devoted to the discussion of the writing and publishing of short mystery fiction, and is thus populated by (you guessed it) budding writers of short mystery…
Ahhhhh sweet BSP.<br />
<br />
Here's a different angle for ya. Let's say that you're trying to get your writing career off the ground, and you're using short stories to get some cred in order to get the right agent/editor/guru to pick up your stuff. Let's further say that you find a writers' group on the web (thank you Yahoo for hosting) that is devoted to the discussion of the writing and publishing of short mystery fiction, and is thus populated by (you guessed it) budding writers of short mystery fiction.<br />
<br />
Eureka! You think! And you immediately subscribe. Then, wonder of wonders, you read the discussion threads, and realize that there aren't just postings about the writing and publication of short mystery fiction, but there are what many would consider "knitting circle" threads, such as "Which is better? Takesus, or Tennessee?" AND that most of those who post to these knitting circle threads have sig lines that read something like this:<br />
<br />
"Sincerely-<br />
<br />
Bozo D. Clown<br />
<br />
Visit my webpage at <a href="http://www.bozoscomin.com">www.bozoscomin.com</a><br />
Enter my latest contest at <a href="http://www.bozosfreestuff.com">www.bozosfreestuff.com</a><br />
Read my writers' blog at <a href="http://www.bozosjournal.net">www.bozosjournal.net</a><br />
Read my latest short story, "Pale Bald Guys With Red Hair and Big Red Noses" <br />
online at <a href="http://www.itsafreemysteryzinefromwhichididntmakeanickel.org">www.itsafreemysteryzinefromwhichididntmakeanickel.org</a><br />
My latest novel: I WAS A REFUGEE FROM INSANE CLOWN POSSE, published by iUniverse is available at Amazon.com"<br />
<br />
This happens a lot.<br />
<br />
The kicker? In the case I satirized above, the group is a *short mystery writers' group*. So it's BSP to the competition, not to your readership. I understand the idea that writers are readers and fans as well, and that it's nice to get another author saying something nice about your book, that networking is important, and all that.<br />
<br />
BUT most writers I know aren't going to go hit <a href="http://www.itsfreeandthewritersdontmakeanickel.net">www.itsfreeandthewritersdontmakeanickel.net</a> to read stuff by novices or by people who can't get paid for their writing. I'm not trying to be unkind. I'm trying to show that people who post this sort of crap in online writers' forums are frequently novices, and always wasting their time.<br />
<br />
This brings us to the question: "If I'm going to spend any time/effort promoting my work, what is the most efficient use of my time?" <br />
<br />
There are a myriad of potential responses to that question. None of them involve schlepping your short mystery fiction to other people in a writers' forum.<br />
<br />
I think in the end, you're selling yourself. Like a politician or an actor, you're selling a product, a brand if you will. How? By being interesting, by being engaging, by being charming (anyone who has ever shared a room with Barry Eisler, who is all of the above and *sincerely so*, knows what I'm talking about). <br />
<br />
So write good, interesting, engaging posts on your writers' forums. Ask probing questions on Dorothy-:L (and I agree that there's nothing wrong with having one's webpage listed in one's sig line. A one-line sig line these days is novel in its brevity), *be* engaged in the subject matter.<br />
<br />
Oh, and once you've sold something, and you're hitting the cons, if you score panel time, be all of the above all over again. Many's the writer I've met at cons like B'con and LCC and come away from the experience thinking I wanted to read their book. That goes double for someone who is both an interesting and gracious panelist (as opposed to a boorish mic-hog or a seat-warming non-entitiy). <br />
<br />
I find most of the above easy to do (I do have to remind myself not to hog the mic, a sin I'm sure no other writer has ever been guilty of!), because the people I meet at conventions do tend to be interesting, interested, funny, engaging. Many of them are even nice away from cons (but that's a train of thought for another thread). I find that the true professionals are able to be all of the above while being sincere and gracious, and I am even more likely to give their stuff a try as a result.<br />
<br />
However, if, for example, you can't hold your liquor, and you think that being loud and boorish, swearing lustily at the people around you as part of some grand "joke" that only *you* get is funny/rewarding/good self-promotion, rest assured, it'll be a cold day in Hell before I spend a nickel on your stuff, and you might even get told off in the bargain.<br />
<br />
One other thing: if you look at my page, you'll see that I've written a lot of stuff. I've got four books (all non-fiction) and one edited anthology (GOD was THAT a lot of work!) under my belt. The only one I mention in my mystery writing circle stuff is the one I wrote on Lincoln. I do so A) because it was my first, and it's still my favorite, and B) I write historical mysteries, and my MA in 19th century American history is likely to be something people will want to know about (and that's a blatant appeal to authority) when wondering about reading my fiction set in 19th century America. Why no laundry list? Simple: who here is going to give a rat's ass that I wrote THE EVERYTHING TEACHER ORGANIZER?<br />
<br />
So be on point when you're promoting yourself.<br />
<br />
Because that's really what we're talking about here: promoting yourself. When you do it well, it's PR, and it can't help but sell your work by association. When you don't do it well, it often gets disparagingly labled as "BSP."<br />
<br />
Your Mileage May Vary-<br />
<br />
Brian Your heart is in the right pl…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-04-06:537324:Comment:191102007-04-06T03:49:40.086ZNewt Lovehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/newtlove
Your heart is in the right place, but your math is bad. Due to the<br />
Transitvity Property of Mathematics, both equations are equivalent, and<br />
are in fact totological expressions.<br />
Perhaps what you meant to say was the Bayesian dependent probabilities, or perhaps sequential causaltity? <br />
<br />
Let ==> mean leads to<br />
<br />
Relationships ==> Friends ==> Sales<br />
rather than<br />
Sales ==> Friends ==> Relationships
Your heart is in the right place, but your math is bad. Due to the<br />
Transitvity Property of Mathematics, both equations are equivalent, and<br />
are in fact totological expressions.<br />
Perhaps what you meant to say was the Bayesian dependent probabilities, or perhaps sequential causaltity? <br />
<br />
Let ==> mean leads to<br />
<br />
Relationships ==> Friends ==> Sales<br />
rather than<br />
Sales ==> Friends ==> Relationships One thought on the BSP thing…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-04-03:537324:Comment:175712007-04-03T01:57:15.650ZPatricia Harringtonhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/observer
One thought on the BSP thing (Blatant Self-Promotion). If the author doesn't do it, who will in any large measure without being paid for it? Unfortunately, very few. Like most things, if the individual is obnoxious and truly blatant about promoting, it probably ends up as a "turn off." Self-defeating. And considering the whole wide web, I suspect that most self-done promotional efforts by print authors, reach just a miniscule audience. However, if they like to read crime fiction ....<br />
<br />
Pat…
One thought on the BSP thing (Blatant Self-Promotion). If the author doesn't do it, who will in any large measure without being paid for it? Unfortunately, very few. Like most things, if the individual is obnoxious and truly blatant about promoting, it probably ends up as a "turn off." Self-defeating. And considering the whole wide web, I suspect that most self-done promotional efforts by print authors, reach just a miniscule audience. However, if they like to read crime fiction .... <br />
<br />
Pat Harrington Love the tongue-in-cheek humo…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-04-03:537324:Comment:175672007-04-03T01:52:16.177ZPatricia Harringtonhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/observer
Love the tongue-in-cheek humor. That old BSP thing done subtly. <br />
<br />
From the relentless whodunit lady. <br />
<br />
Pat Harrington
Love the tongue-in-cheek humor. That old BSP thing done subtly. <br />
<br />
From the relentless whodunit lady. <br />
<br />
Pat Harrington Pari, I met you on your first…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-04-01:537324:Comment:168012007-04-01T12:22:37.263ZClair Lambhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/ClairLamb
Pari, I met you on your first book tour, and you were charming.
Pari, I met you on your first book tour, and you were charming. Hi Robert. I'm not a publishe…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-31:537324:Comment:163842007-03-31T17:59:57.157ZJannie Ballietthttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/tjannieballiett
Hi Robert. I'm not a published novelist YET-- but feel that WHEN the day comes, I'll be such a BSPer that I would alienate everyone! No not really, just kiddin'....(I think)<br></br><br></br>I agree with the varing opinions here. And torn between the two. The marketing publicity has been laid on the author's shoulders nowadays. And with that being said, the author should be selective about his BSPs. Why promote in a romance or fantasy venue, when your book is crime/mystery/thriller/whatever? Selective,…
Hi Robert. I'm not a published novelist YET-- but feel that WHEN the day comes, I'll be such a BSPer that I would alienate everyone! No not really, just kiddin'....(I think)<br/><br/>I agree with the varing opinions here. And torn between the two. The marketing publicity has been laid on the author's shoulders nowadays. And with that being said, the author should be selective about his BSPs. Why promote in a romance or fantasy venue, when your book is crime/mystery/thriller/whatever? Selective, targeted promotion is the only method that possibly works. (speaking as a non-experienced writer simply observing)<br/><br/>Shouldn't there actually be TWO approaches to BSP? Those two being separate BSP package types? One to present to readers in order to grow your fan base and sell your book(s), and the second, to professionally present your writer presense in the professional world, whether in forums and blogs, signatures in emails and discussions? All done with non-tooting-your-own-horn approach though. (just IMHO)<br/><br/>So my answer is "yes" it is necessary, but feel it should be done selectively and with class. It all depends on who you're targeting and what you're trying to accomplish with the BSP. If none, then omit it. I don't think Crimespace is a venue for it, although as writers, it's perfectly acceptable to display our books and websites on our profiles, because that's who we are. On all forums, the selective BSP approach is justified and warranted. EXACTLY!!!!
Self-promotion i…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-31:537324:Comment:163662007-03-31T17:05:53.923ZKevin Burton Smithhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/kvnbsmith
EXACTLY!!!!<br />
<br />
Self-promotion is something all writers do, everytime they write.<br />
<br />
It's the blatant stuff, the shrill "let me tell you all about myself" stuff, the 18-line sig files and the incestuous "You're wonderful"/"No, you're wonderful" circle jerks that annoy people. It's ineffective, glaringly transparent and, as Ray pointed out, increasingly counter-productive.<br />
<br />
The more BSP I see for a book the less likely I am to read it, and the more likely I am to think it's probably a turkey. And the…
EXACTLY!!!!<br />
<br />
Self-promotion is something all writers do, everytime they write.<br />
<br />
It's the blatant stuff, the shrill "let me tell you all about myself" stuff, the 18-line sig files and the incestuous "You're wonderful"/"No, you're wonderful" circle jerks that annoy people. It's ineffective, glaringly transparent and, as Ray pointed out, increasingly counter-productive.<br />
<br />
The more BSP I see for a book the less likely I am to read it, and the more likely I am to think it's probably a turkey. And the few times I've succumbed to the hype, I've been proven right. Fuckin' A, as my husband woul…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-31:537324:Comment:163582007-03-31T16:57:35.072ZCheryl Kaye Tardifhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/cherylktardif
Fuckin' A, as my husband would say. <br />
<br />
:)
Fuckin' A, as my husband would say. <br />
<br />
:)