For Love Or Money - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T13:56:12Zhttps://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/537324:Topic:45679?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A46165&feed=yes&xn_auth=noWell IJ, if you shoot off you…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-06:537324:Comment:463632007-06-06T00:07:36.149ZSandra Ruttanhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Sandramre
Well IJ, if you shoot off your mouth too much, at least I'm in good company!<br />
<br />
Sounds like you have a good working relationship with your current editor though. That's great.
Well IJ, if you shoot off your mouth too much, at least I'm in good company!<br />
<br />
Sounds like you have a good working relationship with your current editor though. That's great. First of, I'm highly flattere…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-05:537324:Comment:462832007-06-05T21:43:12.178ZI. J. Parkerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
First of, I'm highly flattered to be quoted. I think I probably shoot my mouth off too much and lately complain a lot about the business. I have learned some painful truths about being published and am currently angry. No doubt, I 'll settle down in time and accept that that's the way it is.<br />
<br />
Now, for my first two books there were no changes and no editing. I would have loved editing and don't believe for a moment that the books were so good they didn't need it. Since then I've had some…
First of, I'm highly flattered to be quoted. I think I probably shoot my mouth off too much and lately complain a lot about the business. I have learned some painful truths about being published and am currently angry. No doubt, I 'll settle down in time and accept that that's the way it is.<br />
<br />
Now, for my first two books there were no changes and no editing. I would have loved editing and don't believe for a moment that the books were so good they didn't need it. Since then I've had some editing, been grateful for the fact, but have refused to make certain changes. I'm blessed in that my editor leaves the decision up to me in the end. Generally, I'm open to changes because I invariably wonder how the suggestion would work. I enjoy revising, in other words.<br />
<br />
But I could not write a book that went against the grain and would refuse to do so. I'd just mothball the rejected novel and write another for a different publisher. But then I'm no longer willing to make myself miserable. I love writing and cannot write to formula and enjoy myself. Being published is not an ego-thing. It means that I can go on writing and it gives life to my protagonist. That makes it important, but not to the point where nothing matters but the contract. This is utterly depressing. W…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-05:537324:Comment:462552007-06-05T20:31:30.906ZPatricia Abbotthttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/pattinase
This is utterly depressing. When I walk into the local big chain store and see every person in the store in the coffee area reading magazines and sipping coffee, I hate it. The CDs didn't work, but this does. My writing group meets at a chain bookstore, for Pete's sake. And the rest of the people there are using the Internet hookups and drinking coffee. It's turned into a freaking coffeehouse with books serving as atmosphere. And the only books on the shelves are the best sellers, the same ones…
This is utterly depressing. When I walk into the local big chain store and see every person in the store in the coffee area reading magazines and sipping coffee, I hate it. The CDs didn't work, but this does. My writing group meets at a chain bookstore, for Pete's sake. And the rest of the people there are using the Internet hookups and drinking coffee. It's turned into a freaking coffeehouse with books serving as atmosphere. And the only books on the shelves are the best sellers, the same ones the few book reviews left use their scant space to review. Sorry. I need to eat. My blood sugar is in sharp decline here. What's so incredibly frustrat…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-05:537324:Comment:462372007-06-05T17:57:09.926ZSandra Ruttanhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Sandramre
What's so incredibly frustrating is seeing publishers throw big money at unproven authors ($1.25 million in a recent deal for a debut that sounded boring as hell to me, sorry) while others languish.<br />
<br />
"If a writer's time, money and energy is going to be spent on promoting material that has actually been crafted (dictated) by others, why do it?" That's exactly it - I can't afford to. Who can? What I suspect will happen, as (some) publishers eventually scale back, general advances decrease and…
What's so incredibly frustrating is seeing publishers throw big money at unproven authors ($1.25 million in a recent deal for a debut that sounded boring as hell to me, sorry) while others languish.<br />
<br />
"If a writer's time, money and energy is going to be spent on promoting material that has actually been crafted (dictated) by others, why do it?" That's exactly it - I can't afford to. Who can? What I suspect will happen, as (some) publishers eventually scale back, general advances decrease and more and more is expected from the authors in terms of promotion, is that we could see a rise in self publishing OR perhaps more specifically, a press that's run by authors. It's just me theorizing on the possibilities - not saying this is what I want to see happen or endorse, but if authors aren't getting money upfront, aren't able to follow their creative vision and are expected to finance their own promotion, why sign on with publishers paying lower royalties?<br />
<br />
I suspect in the next 20 years we'll see a shift towards this. Or we'll see a rise in more independents, like Bleak House, that focus on specific markets. Possibly both.<br />
<br />
As to bookstore sales, here the big chain finally turned a profit. The reason? Carrying fewer books and selling more gift merchandise (games, teddy bears, soaps, candles, stationary, etc.). This is all so bleak, along w…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-05:537324:Comment:462272007-06-05T17:30:33.244ZPatricia Abbotthttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/pattinase
This is all so bleak, along with your thoughts on self-promotion a few days ago, which I shared with several people in my writing groups. I have to say a number of writers close to me are experiencing the same loss of energy and optimism re: the profession and their future in it. If a writer's time, money and energy is going to be spent on promoting material that has actually been crafted (dictated) by others, why do it? Why don't publishers find a way to survive on smaller sales? Which they…
This is all so bleak, along with your thoughts on self-promotion a few days ago, which I shared with several people in my writing groups. I have to say a number of writers close to me are experiencing the same loss of energy and optimism re: the profession and their future in it. If a writer's time, money and energy is going to be spent on promoting material that has actually been crafted (dictated) by others, why do it? Why don't publishers find a way to survive on smaller sales? Which they will have to do very quickly given the number of people I see in bookstores lately. And not just here. They were big, empty drafty buildings in London, Budapest and Vienna two weeks ago. patti,
i had just the opposit…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-05:537324:Comment:461652007-06-05T14:44:05.845ZAnne Frasierhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/annefrasier
patti,<br />
i had just the opposite experience. my first thriller was published with very little editorial input and i didn't even have to think about compromising. it was accepted the way it was written. but then it did really well, and that changed everything. for book 2 the editorial involvement at the outline and plot level was intense and lasted several months. six months, i believe. i had a two-book contract, and probably turned in 20 plot ideas that were rejected while my deadline approached.…
patti,<br />
i had just the opposite experience. my first thriller was published with very little editorial input and i didn't even have to think about compromising. it was accepted the way it was written. but then it did really well, and that changed everything. for book 2 the editorial involvement at the outline and plot level was intense and lasted several months. six months, i believe. i had a two-book contract, and probably turned in 20 plot ideas that were rejected while my deadline approached. i finally realized i had to go in their softer women's fiction direction or nothing would move forward. so for me a fair amount of success brought about a massive loss of control. the books that followed didn't sell as well, so now i've gone full circle and the book coming out in december had no editorial involvement beyond the normal. NOT HOT. HOT. NOT HOT. :D i completely support myself with my writing, so i have to write for money. i used to think i could do what christa does and write both kinds of books, love and money, but i've found i don't have the time or energy for the luv. As a new author, seeking his…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-05:537324:Comment:461612007-06-05T14:10:06.554ZJude Hardinhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/festus
As a new author, seeking his first book deal, I'm going in with the attitude that the editor is always right. Maybe later on, when I get more experience in publishing and some sales under my belt, I can start talking about my "vision." Right now, I'll make whatever changes they ask for, knowing that all concerned want to produce the best book possible.
As a new author, seeking his first book deal, I'm going in with the attitude that the editor is always right. Maybe later on, when I get more experience in publishing and some sales under my belt, I can start talking about my "vision." Right now, I'll make whatever changes they ask for, knowing that all concerned want to produce the best book possible. Yeah, set up a counter on you…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-05:537324:Comment:461522007-06-05T12:02:10.806ZSandra Ruttanhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Sandramre
Yeah, set up a counter on your blog or something! Some people chart the progress of writing the next novel but this would be far more interesting!
Yeah, set up a counter on your blog or something! Some people chart the progress of writing the next novel but this would be far more interesting! LOL... yeah, you know, I shou…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-05:537324:Comment:460342007-06-05T06:28:49.519ZToni McGee Causeyhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/ecouteuse
LOL... yeah, you know, I should probably do that. Or I could do some sort of widget to count all of the prayer lists I've been told I've been placed on.
LOL... yeah, you know, I should probably do that. Or I could do some sort of widget to count all of the prayer lists I've been told I've been placed on. Yes, that's what I was thinki…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-05:537324:Comment:459852007-06-05T01:12:34.686ZSandra Ruttanhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Sandramre
Yes, that's what I was thinking when I said to Ray about level of experience. With first novels I think we're often more open. Or maybe just some of us are, but in general, I'm always willing to listen to an editor. And sit on their suggestions, process them, and then make reasoned decisions. If I feel they're suggesting a change that adds to the story I'll definitely consider it. I guess, I'll <i>consider</i> just about anything but whether or not I agree will depend on how significantly the…
Yes, that's what I was thinking when I said to Ray about level of experience. With first novels I think we're often more open. Or maybe just some of us are, but in general, I'm always willing to listen to an editor. And sit on their suggestions, process them, and then make reasoned decisions. If I feel they're suggesting a change that adds to the story I'll definitely consider it. I guess, I'll <i>consider</i> just about anything but whether or not I agree will depend on how significantly the change impacts my original vision for the work. I had someone who didn't like character names in a story once, so I changed them.<br />
<br />
In the same way, with edits for Spinetingler, most are negotiable. What I consider more is the manner a writer addresses them. I've had some be completely rude. Some refuse to make any changes at all with no reasoning (including correcting typos). Some process them, take some, explain why they aren't taking others. Others do everything. It more or less tells me who I want to work with again and who I wouldn't edit if I took them in the future. When people get rude about it I basically take the, "Okay, from here on anything from you must be letter perfect" approach because I won't ask volunteers to spend time editing someone who's proven 'difficult'.