Writing Advice Pet Peeves - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T13:07:58Zhttps://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/537324:Topic:49152?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A49272&feed=yes&xn_auth=noNot everybody can write meani…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-28:537324:Comment:513342007-06-28T15:27:45.447ZI. J. Parkerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Not everybody can write meaningfully on every subject. Selecting essay topics for entrance exams is a fine art because they must be made to fit a diverse group of students. Speaking as a former English professor (Yes, Sandra, I burned out too), I never assumed that my young students could express brilliant thoughts on every topic. We generally spent class time discussing readings, some literary, before letting them develop their own ideas on paper. And even then, students should have a choice…
Not everybody can write meaningfully on every subject. Selecting essay topics for entrance exams is a fine art because they must be made to fit a diverse group of students. Speaking as a former English professor (Yes, Sandra, I burned out too), I never assumed that my young students could express brilliant thoughts on every topic. We generally spent class time discussing readings, some literary, before letting them develop their own ideas on paper. And even then, students should have a choice of subjects.<br />
Let's not forget that freshman and sophomore composition classes merely teach competence, not award-winning prose. Of course. I ignore that.
As…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-27:537324:Comment:511662007-06-27T14:05:05.011ZI. J. Parkerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Of course. I ignore that.<br />
As for the characterization: Dickens worked very much with characters who had certain eccentric traits or a colorful appearance. He did this very well. I see no reason why we cannot occasionally learn from him. If nothing else, it helps the reader keep track of characters.
Of course. I ignore that.<br />
As for the characterization: Dickens worked very much with characters who had certain eccentric traits or a colorful appearance. He did this very well. I see no reason why we cannot occasionally learn from him. If nothing else, it helps the reader keep track of characters. Once I got old enough to know…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-25:537324:Comment:507582007-06-25T18:34:25.796ZJohn McFetridgehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JohnMcF
Once I got old enough to know what it meant, then, "Write what you know," wasn't such bad advice. Once I realized it doesn't mean "facts" you know as much as "feelings" you know. Facts you can (and should) look up.<br />
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I was easily able to get inside the heads of characters who were lonely failures, who for long periods of their lives were paralyzed by self-doubt and low self-esteem, constantly filled with regret and worry. That's writing what you know.<br />
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All that internet porn stuff I had to look…
Once I got old enough to know what it meant, then, "Write what you know," wasn't such bad advice. Once I realized it doesn't mean "facts" you know as much as "feelings" you know. Facts you can (and should) look up.<br />
<br />
I was easily able to get inside the heads of characters who were lonely failures, who for long periods of their lives were paralyzed by self-doubt and low self-esteem, constantly filled with regret and worry. That's writing what you know.<br />
<br />
All that internet porn stuff I had to look up.<br />
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I got very little bad advice in creative writing classes, but I was too young to realize that at the time and thought it was all bad. Looking back now, all I can remember is the time Garry Geddes (mostly known as a poet, though he was teaching short stories) had me read a story out loud. I really wasn`t into that, I kept thinking, `but stories are meant to be <i>read</i>, no one will ever hear this,`and of course, I didn`t want to read in front of a room full of people. It was only years later I realized what he was getting at, this whole idea of `voice`in writing. There was probably a lot of other really good stuff going on in those classes that could have really helped me out if I`d been bright enough to figure that out. I completely agree about the…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-19:537324:Comment:494972007-06-19T18:23:45.333ZSandra Ruttanhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Sandramre
I completely agree about the need to read. I was always kicking myself, feeling I wasn't well-read in the genre, so when I see aspiring authors/authors who haven't read as much as me I'm shocked. Best advice I got:<br />
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"Keep reading" - Ian Rankin<br />
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I also agree with you about protagonists. You don't have to like them.
I completely agree about the need to read. I was always kicking myself, feeling I wasn't well-read in the genre, so when I see aspiring authors/authors who haven't read as much as me I'm shocked. Best advice I got:<br />
<br />
"Keep reading" - Ian Rankin<br />
<br />
I also agree with you about protagonists. You don't have to like them. Does a protagonist have to be…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-19:537324:Comment:493672007-06-19T04:20:39.901ZJude Hardinhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/festus
Does a protagonist have to be likeable? That's the advice I hear from some folks, and I think it's wrong. Interesting, yes. Likeable, not necessarily.<br />
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Likeable, to me, implies someone you might want to be friends with. Would you want to have Jack Reacher as a house guest for a few weeks? Would you invite Vachss's Burke to the church picnic? Would you want Amos Walker to babysit your kids for the evening?<br />
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Maybe. I don't know. Maybe you're a masochist.<br />
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Protags are, by nature, very opinionated…
Does a protagonist have to be likeable? That's the advice I hear from some folks, and I think it's wrong. Interesting, yes. Likeable, not necessarily.<br />
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Likeable, to me, implies someone you might want to be friends with. Would you want to have Jack Reacher as a house guest for a few weeks? Would you invite Vachss's Burke to the church picnic? Would you want Amos Walker to babysit your kids for the evening?<br />
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Maybe. I don't know. Maybe you're a masochist.<br />
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Protags are, by nature, very opinionated people, always followed by Trouble. Personally, I don't need to like them. I just need to root for them and enjoy their stories.<br />
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The best writing advice I ever heard? Read, read, read. Write, write, write. From Stephen King's <i>On Writing</i>. Writing can't be taught. Not really. You have to start with a bit of innate talent, and then nuture that talent with sweat. There are no shortcuts, no magical formulas you can learn in a classroom. To me, creative writing courses and MFAs are a waste of time. Sit your lonely ass in a chair, crank out half a million words, and then see where you are. Maybe you're a writer, maybe you're not. There's only one way to find out, IMHO. Read a lot, write a lot. Just do it. You could argue that it was r…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-19:537324:Comment:493472007-06-19T00:44:26.678ZDaniel Hatadihttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/danielhatadi
You could argue that it was redundant because it's already implied by the word 'patted', but I guess I've already countered that by saying it was less patronising. Which could lead someone to say 'choose another verb', but ... okay, I'll stop now. :)
You could argue that it was redundant because it's already implied by the word 'patted', but I guess I've already countered that by saying it was less patronising. Which could lead someone to say 'choose another verb', but ... okay, I'll stop now. :) Avoid all adverbs and get rid…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-19:537324:Comment:493372007-06-19T00:27:51.370ZDaniel Hatadihttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/danielhatadi
<i>Avoid all adverbs and get rid of all unnecessary words.</i><br />
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This will probably sound a little naive, but I think that following micro-rules like this can tend to make everything seem the same. Yes, a good writer can follow rules like this and still create entirely different voices for different characters or novels and, yes, there's always another way to phrase a particular sentence, but ... sometimes I think it's okay to write things like:<br />
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"She patted him softly on his bald head."<br />
<br />
My…
<i>Avoid all adverbs and get rid of all unnecessary words.</i><br />
<br />
This will probably sound a little naive, but I think that following micro-rules like this can tend to make everything seem the same. Yes, a good writer can follow rules like this and still create entirely different voices for different characters or novels and, yes, there's always another way to phrase a particular sentence, but ... sometimes I think it's okay to write things like:<br />
<br />
"She patted him softly on his bald head."<br />
<br />
My argument here would be that the word 'softly' evokes a certain sound and mood in our minds that makes the sentence a tad less patronising than it would be without the word 'softly'.<br />
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Also, I think that sometimes it's nice to have a few extra words for rhythm, even if they are redundant, even if we don't really need to read them, even if the point has already been made, Daniel.<br />
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I'm reading John Connolly's DARK HOLLOW at the moment and, if I look at the book from the 'wasted words' viewpoint, I could quite easily cut it down by at least 200 pages. But I find myself enjoying the digressions (except for the history lessons on arrival at every single location), partly because of the poetry of the language, but also because of the slow creeping of the buildup. I actually blogged about that…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-19:537324:Comment:493272007-06-19T00:00:54.865ZSandra Ruttanhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Sandramre
I actually blogged about that not too long ago. And I talked about examples of starting with weather - a Rankin book. Stuart MacBride's excellent <i>Cold Granite:</i> has chapter 2 starting with the line "It was pissing down outside." Chapter 1 is really the equivalent of a prologue (one page, from the killer's pov) so I think of Chapter 2 as the "real" start. Not that I have anything against prologues. It's the prologue backlash that prompts authors to retitled them as chapters,…
I actually blogged about that not too long ago. And I talked about examples of starting with weather - a Rankin book. Stuart MacBride's excellent <i>Cold Granite:</i> has chapter 2 starting with the line "It was pissing down outside." Chapter 1 is really the equivalent of a prologue (one page, from the killer's pov) so I think of Chapter 2 as the "real" start. Not that I have anything against prologues. It's the prologue backlash that prompts authors to retitled them as chapters, though.<br />
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Another thing people get advice on that drives me nuts.<br />
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And in general, one page chapters drive me batty. It's like books written for those with ADD - "I know you can't pay attention so my chapters will never be longer than 3 pages." Gives an artificial sense of a fast-moving book, but wastes a lot of paper and really means dick all.<br />
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Ah, there I go, another little rant... Wait another ten or twenty ye…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-18:537324:Comment:493202007-06-18T22:33:29.682ZPepper Smithhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Reefrunner
Wait another ten or twenty years, and then see if what you write now is as 'meaningful' as you hope it is. At this point, we're just comparing apples and oranges trying to clarify what 'meaningful' is, because we're working from two very different points in life.
Wait another ten or twenty years, and then see if what you write now is as 'meaningful' as you hope it is. At this point, we're just comparing apples and oranges trying to clarify what 'meaningful' is, because we're working from two very different points in life. It might be instructive to sp…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-06-18:537324:Comment:492972007-06-18T20:38:11.496ZPepper Smithhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Reefrunner
It might be instructive to speak with a number of college writing teachers, and see what they have to say about the average student. Writing well, and writing with something to say, are not as common at that age as you might think. (And yes, I know a college writing teacher who has much the same to say about her students as Jon Loomis does, that students that age really don't have, on average, enough life experience to write meaningful work.)<br />
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Note that I said 'average'. The reason it's called…
It might be instructive to speak with a number of college writing teachers, and see what they have to say about the average student. Writing well, and writing with something to say, are not as common at that age as you might think. (And yes, I know a college writing teacher who has much the same to say about her students as Jon Loomis does, that students that age really don't have, on average, enough life experience to write meaningful work.)<br />
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Note that I said 'average'. The reason it's called 'average' is that's where most people fall statistically. The really good ones are a tiny minority comparatively.<br />
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It annoyed the daylights out of me when a college writing teacher (and published author) told me that most people don't really begin to write well until they hit mid-life and have some years of experience with life under their belts. I didn't like being told I still had some growing to do, when I thought I was already grown. Looking back on what I wrote then compared with what I write now, I know that what he said is a whole lot truer than I thought back then.<br />
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Just some thoughts, on a rainy and allergy-ridden day.