It's not who you know, it's who you blow...away - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T14:47:00Zhttps://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/537324:Topic:53763?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A53787&feed=yes&xn_auth=noGood point, Dee.tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-14:537324:Comment:549072007-07-14T04:18:45.959ZJude Hardinhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/festus
Good point, Dee.
Good point, Dee. I'd say it depends on the sto…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-13:537324:Comment:548432007-07-13T17:06:39.293ZDee Savoyhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/deesavoy
I'd say it depends on the story you are telling. If there's only one victim in a story than that does tend to make that person more important. You want to care or--in the case of a not-likable character-- be made to care that the victim's killer is brought to justice. But what if there are multiple kills? You can't get that invested in everybody. In that instance, I think you want to have one victim you really feel a connection with that makes you want to say, "Get the bastard, get him…
I'd say it depends on the story you are telling. If there's only one victim in a story than that does tend to make that person more important. You want to care or--in the case of a not-likable character-- be made to care that the victim's killer is brought to justice. But what if there are multiple kills? You can't get that invested in everybody. In that instance, I think you want to have one victim you really feel a connection with that makes you want to say, "Get the bastard, get him now."<br />
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All the best,<br />
Dee Oh, I know, Jon. Absolutely n…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-10:537324:Comment:540612007-07-10T02:37:51.274ZJude Hardinhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/festus
Oh, I know, Jon. Absolutely no offense taken. I just wanted to note that sometimes emotions can come honestly, without any manipulation in mind.<br />
<br />
I started reading Harlan Coben's <i>No Second Chance</i> today. The main character wakes up in the hospital with gunshot wounds, and finds out his wife was killed and daughter kidnapped. Talk about honest, powerful emotions. Wow. Coben's got game.
Oh, I know, Jon. Absolutely no offense taken. I just wanted to note that sometimes emotions can come honestly, without any manipulation in mind.<br />
<br />
I started reading Harlan Coben's <i>No Second Chance</i> today. The main character wakes up in the hospital with gunshot wounds, and finds out his wife was killed and daughter kidnapped. Talk about honest, powerful emotions. Wow. Coben's got game. Now that would be a story, LO…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-10:537324:Comment:540372007-07-10T01:01:19.219ZJude Hardinhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/festus
Now <i>that</i> would be a story, LOL!
Now <i>that</i> would be a story, LOL! The victims in my novel on su…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-09:537324:Comment:539492007-07-09T19:54:12.168ZJude Hardinhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/festus
The victims in my novel on submission were genuinely innocent, although they had unwittingly gotten involved in some very hairy circumstances. I was working a straight kidnapping plot, and the murders just sort of happened--with strong motivation from the villain. It was a surprise to me, and I hope the reader is also surprised, but I didn't start with the intention of manipulating emotions.
The victims in my novel on submission were genuinely innocent, although they had unwittingly gotten involved in some very hairy circumstances. I was working a straight kidnapping plot, and the murders just sort of happened--with strong motivation from the villain. It was a surprise to me, and I hope the reader is also surprised, but I didn't start with the intention of manipulating emotions. Like on Star Trek. You know t…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-09:537324:Comment:539412007-07-09T18:37:08.631ZJohn Dishonhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/whiteskwirl
Like on Star Trek. You know the guy you've never seen before is going to get it.
Like on Star Trek. You know the guy you've never seen before is going to get it. Readers identifying with the…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-09:537324:Comment:539382007-07-09T18:24:10.109ZJude Hardinhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/festus
Readers identifying with the characters is another important consideration. Thanks, Barbara.
Readers identifying with the characters is another important consideration. Thanks, Barbara. Hmmm.... it's not unconventio…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-09:537324:Comment:539312007-07-09T18:09:03.436ZBarbara Fisterhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Bfister
Hmmm.... it's not unconventional in traditional and cozy mysteries. Quite often the murderee is a jerk who every other character has motive to murder. That way you have plenty of potential plot threads - and no unpleasant aftertaste!<br />
<br />
Personally, I prefer to feel sympathy for the victim, though they don't have to be saints. In fact, I'm more likely to sympathize if they aren't saints, because they'll be more like me.
Hmmm.... it's not unconventional in traditional and cozy mysteries. Quite often the murderee is a jerk who every other character has motive to murder. That way you have plenty of potential plot threads - and no unpleasant aftertaste!<br />
<br />
Personally, I prefer to feel sympathy for the victim, though they don't have to be saints. In fact, I'm more likely to sympathize if they aren't saints, because they'll be more like me. "Outstanding" is subjective,…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-09:537324:Comment:539292007-07-09T18:03:12.294ZJude Hardinhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/festus
"Outstanding" is subjective, of course, and "the old traditional novels" a bit vague, but I agree that emotional involvement is practically essential if you want the reader to keep turning pages. Thanks for the thoughts, I.J.
"Outstanding" is subjective, of course, and "the old traditional novels" a bit vague, but I agree that emotional involvement is practically essential if you want the reader to keep turning pages. Thanks for the thoughts, I.J. I doubt I'm "noir influenced.…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-07-09:537324:Comment:539242007-07-09T17:49:03.816ZI. J. Parkerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
I doubt I'm "noir influenced." I am influenced by outstanding novels. Some of these have been mentioned among works by "noir" writers. The term is immaterial to me. Some novels are darker than others. So what?<br />
I dislike novels where the victims are expendable. In the old traditional novels it got to be predictable that the least likable characters would be bumped off first. No doubt to spare the reader.<br />
But the reader shouldn't be spared. And the good novel requires that the reader become…
I doubt I'm "noir influenced." I am influenced by outstanding novels. Some of these have been mentioned among works by "noir" writers. The term is immaterial to me. Some novels are darker than others. So what?<br />
I dislike novels where the victims are expendable. In the old traditional novels it got to be predictable that the least likable characters would be bumped off first. No doubt to spare the reader.<br />
But the reader shouldn't be spared. And the good novel requires that the reader become emotionally involved.