Crime novels where the crime does not take place... - CrimeSpace2024-03-28T13:26:47Zhttps://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/537324:Topic:7208?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A7360&feed=yes&xn_auth=noShame by Karin Alvtegen doesn…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-20:537324:Comment:89532007-03-20T03:26:54.021ZKaren from AustCrimehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/austcrimefiction
Shame by Karin Alvtegen doesn't fall 100% in your definition as there's not an expected criminal as much as an assumption of criminality which may or may not be accurate on the part of the two main female characters.<br />
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The whole premise of the book is the title - the Shame that these two, initially totally unconnected women feel, about events in which they have been involved.<br />
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Are the events crimes... well definitely not in one case, possibly in the other case.<br />
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Fascinating book but it wouldn't…
Shame by Karin Alvtegen doesn't fall 100% in your definition as there's not an expected criminal as much as an assumption of criminality which may or may not be accurate on the part of the two main female characters.<br />
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The whole premise of the book is the title - the Shame that these two, initially totally unconnected women feel, about events in which they have been involved.<br />
<br />
Are the events crimes... well definitely not in one case, possibly in the other case.<br />
<br />
Fascinating book but it wouldn't be for everyone. I think it could work well, a…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-18:537324:Comment:79202007-03-18T14:36:24.606ZLaura Roothttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/mallard
I think it could work well, as a less usual twist on a psychological thriller. The one book that springs to mind is SPOILER alert <br />
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Amercian Psycho - at least that's how I interpreted it, anyway! Racking my brains, as I am sure I have read other books with that sort of storyline but can't think of any...
I think it could work well, as a less usual twist on a psychological thriller. The one book that springs to mind is SPOILER alert <br />
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Amercian Psycho - at least that's how I interpreted it, anyway! Racking my brains, as I am sure I have read other books with that sort of storyline but can't think of any... I think that could work well,…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-18:537324:Comment:78462007-03-18T11:42:31.640ZSteve Mosbyhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/stevemosby
I think that could work well, to be honest, and depending on how the reader is meant to feel about the protagonist it might even work better. It takes the book into different territory though, obviously.<br></br><br></br>I can think of a few books where the crime doesn't turn out to be what the reader expected. SLIGHT SPOILER, perhaps, but I'm thinking of The Oxford Murders and Breakheart Hill.<br></br><br></br>The film that comes most to mind from your description is The Woodsman with Kevin Bacon. Didn't get…
I think that could work well, to be honest, and depending on how the reader is meant to feel about the protagonist it might even work better. It takes the book into different territory though, obviously.<br/><br/>I can think of a few books where the crime doesn't turn out to be what the reader expected. SLIGHT SPOILER, perhaps, but I'm thinking of The Oxford Murders and Breakheart Hill.<br/><br/>The film that comes most to mind from your description is The Woodsman with Kevin Bacon. Didn't get a huge release because of the subject matter, so if you've not seen it, it's a psychological study of a flawed individual, in this case a recently-released paedophile. SPOILER AGAIN. The film has a mounting sense of dread that he'll reoffend - but then has a much more complicated and interesting ending because he does something different instead. From memory, it's an excellent movie, and might be worth checking out if you're treading similar ground. "Darkly Dreaming Dexter" come…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-18:537324:Comment:78322007-03-18T09:18:39.475ZKathryn Lilleyhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/KathrynL
"Darkly Dreaming Dexter" comes to mind. A deeply flawed protagonist<br/>(a serial murderer) who exposes other murderers, to keep his own vicious<br/>instincts at bay. (He does commit a crime by murdering the bad guys, however). You might consider writing in a subplot where there<br/>is a crime, perhaps that your character solves, and maybe the solving of<br/>the crime can lead to a psychological turning point (and change) for him or her.
"Darkly Dreaming Dexter" comes to mind. A deeply flawed protagonist<br/>(a serial murderer) who exposes other murderers, to keep his own vicious<br/>instincts at bay. (He does commit a crime by murdering the bad guys, however). You might consider writing in a subplot where there<br/>is a crime, perhaps that your character solves, and maybe the solving of<br/>the crime can lead to a psychological turning point (and change) for him or her. Let's say the crime doesn't t…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-18:537324:Comment:77202007-03-18T03:11:23.130ZPatricia Abbotthttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/pattinase
Let's say the crime doesn't take place because it's no longer necessary. And the protagonist is extremely flawed. I think what I'm writing is a psychological study of a character who has criminal tendencies. I haven't learned how to gain control of my material now that I'm past my usual 15-20 pages. Thanks for the help, guys. Obviously the writing will tell.
Let's say the crime doesn't take place because it's no longer necessary. And the protagonist is extremely flawed. I think what I'm writing is a psychological study of a character who has criminal tendencies. I haven't learned how to gain control of my material now that I'm past my usual 15-20 pages. Thanks for the help, guys. Obviously the writing will tell. Coddling your characters is h…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-18:537324:Comment:76662007-03-18T02:01:33.986ZEric Christophersonhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/datahog
Coddling your characters is hardly a rare phenomenon, especially among beginning novelists. It's how you end up with protagonists with no flaws, for example. In general, the urge should be fought. But in a particular case, it's hard to say. It could be made to work.
Coddling your characters is hardly a rare phenomenon, especially among beginning novelists. It's how you end up with protagonists with no flaws, for example. In general, the urge should be fought. But in a particular case, it's hard to say. It could be made to work. Two key questions: Is it a co…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-18:537324:Comment:76562007-03-18T01:42:58.301ZMeriah Crawfordhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Meriah
Two key questions: Is it a comedy, and why doesn't the crime take place? Comedies with bumbling criminals who try to steal, for example, and aren't clever enough to pull it off are fairly common, though I'm guessing that's not what you mean. Then, the real question is, why doesn't the crime take place? If you have a good/compelling answer and the book is well written (personally, I'm assuming it's brilliant), you should be fine. Swimming upstream, perhaps, but we all know that's where the…
Two key questions: Is it a comedy, and why doesn't the crime take place? Comedies with bumbling criminals who try to steal, for example, and aren't clever enough to pull it off are fairly common, though I'm guessing that's not what you mean. Then, the real question is, why doesn't the crime take place? If you have a good/compelling answer and the book is well written (personally, I'm assuming it's brilliant), you should be fine. Swimming upstream, perhaps, but we all know that's where the action is. If you're a salmon, anyway. Love Picnic at Hanging Rock.…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-18:537324:Comment:76502007-03-18T01:38:54.710ZPatricia Abbotthttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/pattinase
Love Picnic at Hanging Rock. The dread is everyting and powerful enough to make the "not knowing" okay. Great example. But I do see the problem for most readers. It would take the story out of the crime fiction genre--at least into suspense. Maybe that's okay though. Thanks for the help. I'll see if I can harden him/her up and get the dirty dead done.
Love Picnic at Hanging Rock. The dread is everyting and powerful enough to make the "not knowing" okay. Great example. But I do see the problem for most readers. It would take the story out of the crime fiction genre--at least into suspense. Maybe that's okay though. Thanks for the help. I'll see if I can harden him/her up and get the dirty dead done. i like the idea, but editors…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-18:537324:Comment:76072007-03-18T00:20:43.584ZAnne Frasierhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/annefrasier
i like the idea, but editors might feel it doesn't have broad appeal. i don't know. not the same thing, but when i read your post i immediately thought of one of my favorite movies, picnic at hanging rock. i'm sure you've probably seen it. maybe more than once. i love the way the entire movie has that floaty feeling of dread and ambiguity where so much is left unanswered.<br />
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i think it depends on what kind of writer you are. vince mentioned jess walter, who i think can do that sort of thing…
i like the idea, but editors might feel it doesn't have broad appeal. i don't know. not the same thing, but when i read your post i immediately thought of one of my favorite movies, picnic at hanging rock. i'm sure you've probably seen it. maybe more than once. i love the way the entire movie has that floaty feeling of dread and ambiguity where so much is left unanswered. <br />
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i think it depends on what kind of writer you are. vince mentioned jess walter, who i think can do that sort of thing because his writing is so powerful and rich. (yes, literary.) i'm guessing you could do it too, patti. I think, in general, I'd agre…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2007-03-17:537324:Comment:74702007-03-17T21:02:13.102ZSandra Ruttanhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Sandramre
I think, in general, I'd agree with you. There are exceptions to everything. Doesn't bother me if the killer doesn't get caught in the end, for example, but there has to be something of substance to the book. If you pick up a book expecting a crime and some level of pursuit of the guilty, then you're more likely to be annoyed if you don't get it.<br />
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That said, there are the exceptions, where it's wonderfully appropriate.
I think, in general, I'd agree with you. There are exceptions to everything. Doesn't bother me if the killer doesn't get caught in the end, for example, but there has to be something of substance to the book. If you pick up a book expecting a crime and some level of pursuit of the guilty, then you're more likely to be annoyed if you don't get it.<br />
<br />
That said, there are the exceptions, where it's wonderfully appropriate.