Are the Only Readers Left All Writers? - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T15:45:42Zhttps://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/are-the-only-readers-left-all?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A201286&feed=yes&xn_auth=noIt's too bad they don't teach…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-06-02:537324:Comment:2013302009-06-02T22:47:43.278ZJohn McFetridgehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JohnMcF
It's too bad they don't teach more history in journalism school.
It's too bad they don't teach more history in journalism school. I agree. It is amazing how fe…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-06-02:537324:Comment:2013172009-06-02T21:36:56.885ZEDWARD C MORGANhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/ECMorgan
I agree. It is amazing how few kids coming out of J-school know the proofreader's marks.<br />
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Sadly J-schools are not teaching much writing these days. I know of a major university that is down to only nine hours of writing intensive courses required in the journalism program.<br />
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They know a lot about ethics, social networking, and building databases, but if you can't ask good questions and write a decent story you are worthless in the newsroom.
I agree. It is amazing how few kids coming out of J-school know the proofreader's marks.<br />
<br />
Sadly J-schools are not teaching much writing these days. I know of a major university that is down to only nine hours of writing intensive courses required in the journalism program.<br />
<br />
They know a lot about ethics, social networking, and building databases, but if you can't ask good questions and write a decent story you are worthless in the newsroom. I believe it. And whose fault…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-06-02:537324:Comment:2013092009-06-02T21:25:01.824ZI. J. Parkerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
I believe it. And whose fault is that sort of ignorance? Her Journalism teachers fell down flat.
I believe it. And whose fault is that sort of ignorance? Her Journalism teachers fell down flat. Yes, you've got to stand up f…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-06-02:537324:Comment:2013072009-06-02T21:23:38.528ZI. J. Parkerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Yes, you've got to stand up for yourself. I was breaking all those blue or green pencils and had a deadline. i daresay it made a very bad impression, using a stamp. :)
Yes, you've got to stand up for yourself. I was breaking all those blue or green pencils and had a deadline. i daresay it made a very bad impression, using a stamp. :) I love what I've seen of Serp…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-06-02:537324:Comment:2013052009-06-02T21:21:50.592ZI. J. Parkerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
I love what I've seen of Serpent's Tail. In fact, I'm considering taking my last novel out of the country to someone who might have an inkling about what I'm trying to do with it. It couldn't be any more hopeless than addressing American publishers.
I love what I've seen of Serpent's Tail. In fact, I'm considering taking my last novel out of the country to someone who might have an inkling about what I'm trying to do with it. It couldn't be any more hopeless than addressing American publishers. Haha.
I haven't done much ha…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-06-02:537324:Comment:2012882009-06-02T18:22:25.247ZEDWARD C MORGANhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/ECMorgan
Haha.<br />
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I haven't done much hands on copy editing in about 10 years. A few weeks ago, though, I found myself editing copy. Marked out a line, then after reading the graf that followed, I went back up and wrote "stet."<br />
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Later, the reporter, fresh out of J-school, came to me and said, "I did what you said, but it doesn't make sense."<br />
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She had taken the line out and literally wrote the word "stet" into her story. :-D
Haha.<br />
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I haven't done much hands on copy editing in about 10 years. A few weeks ago, though, I found myself editing copy. Marked out a line, then after reading the graf that followed, I went back up and wrote "stet."<br />
<br />
Later, the reporter, fresh out of J-school, came to me and said, "I did what you said, but it doesn't make sense."<br />
<br />
She had taken the line out and literally wrote the word "stet" into her story. :-D A "stet" stamp, what a great…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-06-02:537324:Comment:2012862009-06-02T18:18:25.293ZJohn McFetridgehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JohnMcF
A "stet" stamp, what a great idea. My novels are all in character's voices - even the narration, so the copy editors go crazy.<br />
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I sometimes use the phrase, "It reads like my grade nine English teacher wrote it," as a criticism.<br />
<br />
I realize I am in the minority.
A "stet" stamp, what a great idea. My novels are all in character's voices - even the narration, so the copy editors go crazy.<br />
<br />
I sometimes use the phrase, "It reads like my grade nine English teacher wrote it," as a criticism.<br />
<br />
I realize I am in the minority. IJ, with Serpent's Tail I go…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-06-02:537324:Comment:2012842009-06-02T18:14:42.388ZDave Zeltsermanhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/DaveZeltserman
IJ, with Serpent's Tail I go through a content edit phase with my editor as well as getting feedback from other members of the organization--but then again, they take a more old-fashioned view of things--buying books that they love as opposed to what they think might be considered "commercially viable", having their sales force read the books they sell, giving books years to find an audience. And yes, their copy-editors are very particular and thorough also.
IJ, with Serpent's Tail I go through a content edit phase with my editor as well as getting feedback from other members of the organization--but then again, they take a more old-fashioned view of things--buying books that they love as opposed to what they think might be considered "commercially viable", having their sales force read the books they sell, giving books years to find an audience. And yes, their copy-editors are very particular and thorough also. I have always wondered about…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-06-02:537324:Comment:2012782009-06-02T17:55:05.029ZI. J. Parkerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
I have always wondered about your last sentence, Jack, because of the many complaints readers have that publishers/editors don't do anything about spelling and grammar. I have always had the opposite impression. My copy-editors have been thorough to a fault, so much so that I've had to have a "stet" stamp made at one point. And that was certainly not because I consider my words too precious to touch. They've been wonderful about catching some embarrassing stuff. But overall, I got the feeling…
I have always wondered about your last sentence, Jack, because of the many complaints readers have that publishers/editors don't do anything about spelling and grammar. I have always had the opposite impression. My copy-editors have been thorough to a fault, so much so that I've had to have a "stet" stamp made at one point. And that was certainly not because I consider my words too precious to touch. They've been wonderful about catching some embarrassing stuff. But overall, I got the feeling that they marked up novels to prove they were earning their wage.<br />
Ultimately, the author approves or disapproves changes made by the copy-editor.<br />
The thing that is becoming rare these days is editorial input on content and organization. I liked your comment, Kris.…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2009-06-02:537324:Comment:2012682009-06-02T17:17:02.559ZJackBludishttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JackBludis
I liked your comment, Kris.<br />
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Your take on the outcome of what many, many self-published writers produce, and why they produce it. This is similar to how I feel. I often I say similar things, but because I am also a writer, many consider me way over the top in my criticism of those who have little to say but say it proudly. (I know you are a writer also, so I suspect you get those kinds of reactions too,)<br />
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Worse, those who have no idea how to write a mystery try to write mysteries.<br />
<br />
The mystery…
I liked your comment, Kris.<br />
<br />
Your take on the outcome of what many, many self-published writers produce, and why they produce it. This is similar to how I feel. I often I say similar things, but because I am also a writer, many consider me way over the top in my criticism of those who have little to say but say it proudly. (I know you are a writer also, so I suspect you get those kinds of reactions too,)<br />
<br />
Worse, those who have no idea how to write a mystery try to write mysteries.<br />
<br />
The mystery seems so easy because of the logical progression: Crime and victim, suspects, step-by-step through the scene, around the scene, ask a lot of questions, sort a lot of evidence a la the CSI TV series--which are often inaccurate by the way--come to a solution, and then conclude the book.<br />
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I also suspect that many who write self-published mysteries never bother to read the work of others. They don't read the very-good current writers, the classic writers, or even the current best sellers.<br />
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I do know of one originally self-published writer who put everything he had in writing, editing *and* writing. He got his books out clean and has been nominated for key mystery awards. He will soon be published by one of the rising, newish publishers of crime fiction.<br />
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Self-publication isn't all bad, but most self-published books are pretty bad to awful. Note that I said,"most." I think that the "the greatest majority" is probably more accurate.<br />
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Even those books that have made it to best-seller status, like THE CELESTINE PROPHESIES, are still very poorly written. Even when a major pub agrees to distribute, they don't do much with the editing. Perhaps, though, it is that the author feels that the words are too precious to touch.