DO mystery writers critique each other? - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T14:16:46Zhttps://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/do-mystery-writers-critique?x=1&id=537324%3ATopic%3A234800&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI helped found a "mystery sup…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-05-14:537324:Comment:2349602010-05-14T06:15:06.107ZAnn Littlewoodhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/AnnLittlewood
I helped found a "mystery support group" ten years ago. It's still thriving and most of us are published in the field. When we have openings (rare), we advertise in the local writing groups and ask for chapter submissions. We always receive several and the hard part is turning people down. We meet every other Wednesday after distributing chapters (or query letters or website bios or whatever). I'm surprised to hear other writers don't take advantage of early feedback from motivated readers.
I helped found a "mystery support group" ten years ago. It's still thriving and most of us are published in the field. When we have openings (rare), we advertise in the local writing groups and ask for chapter submissions. We always receive several and the hard part is turning people down. We meet every other Wednesday after distributing chapters (or query letters or website bios or whatever). I'm surprised to hear other writers don't take advantage of early feedback from motivated readers. In glancing over this discuss…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-05-13:537324:Comment:2349372010-05-13T22:37:33.672ZCamille LaGuirehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CamilleLaGuire
In glancing over this discussion, I realize I want to make something clear - I have nothing against sf and fantasy writers as critiquers. The truth is, the sfnal community is one of the most open and generous you'll ever find.<br />
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My point in posting here was simply that I wasn't finding the same thing among mystery writers. Which you could say is a criticism of the mystery community. I thought aloud, though, that maybe it wasn't such a bad thing, and I think it ended up as criticism of sf.<br />
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What…
In glancing over this discussion, I realize I want to make something clear - I have nothing against sf and fantasy writers as critiquers. The truth is, the sfnal community is one of the most open and generous you'll ever find.<br />
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My point in posting here was simply that I wasn't finding the same thing among mystery writers. Which you could say is a criticism of the mystery community. I thought aloud, though, that maybe it wasn't such a bad thing, and I think it ended up as criticism of sf.<br />
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What I've found is that, after a lot of prodding and whining on various forums and blogs, mystery writers DO critique each other. They are just more private and wary about it. I do think it's worth seeking out mystery writers for critique, because many areas and techniques are a specialty. Sure any genre might have some books with 80 straight pages of interrogation, or lots of clues to a twist hidden in plain sight, but in our genre, these are not virtuoso acts.<br />
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And I do think it's important to have writers of other genres in your circle of close writer friends, too. My best Alpha Reader is an sf, fantasy, YA writer. We have very similar tastes overall - maybe seventy-five percent of the time we're totally on the same wavelength. But it's the Twenty-five percent of the time we're not that makes her particularly valuable. I totally agree with that-I l…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-05-13:537324:Comment:2349182010-05-13T17:30:34.593ZLorie Hamhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/LorieHam
I totally agree with that-I like to know I've planted my clues well yet fairly
I totally agree with that-I like to know I've planted my clues well yet fairly Can't say I agree that the ne…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-05-13:537324:Comment:2349082010-05-13T16:26:20.513ZEric Christophersonhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/datahog
Can't say I agree that the need for secrecy is relevant. As a mystery/suspense writer I like to get feedback precisely to test whether I've successfully hidden what I need to hide.
Can't say I agree that the need for secrecy is relevant. As a mystery/suspense writer I like to get feedback precisely to test whether I've successfully hidden what I need to hide. I never really thought about…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-05-13:537324:Comment:2349062010-05-13T16:17:36.355ZLorie Hamhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/LorieHam
I never really thought about this before but I must say I haven't seen many either. Our local chapter of Sisters In Crime has made a few stabs at it but not with any real long term success. I'd love a good critique group for mysteries
I never really thought about this before but I must say I haven't seen many either. Our local chapter of Sisters In Crime has made a few stabs at it but not with any real long term success. I'd love a good critique group for mysteries Thanks, J.E.
I've got some i…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-05-13:537324:Comment:2348822010-05-13T01:49:05.187ZCamille LaGuirehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CamilleLaGuire
Thanks, J.E.<br />
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I've got some invites to be on the waiting list for a couple of good groups just this morning, and a few other people, but I'll definitely check out Absolute Write.
Thanks, J.E.<br />
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I've got some invites to be on the waiting list for a couple of good groups just this morning, and a few other people, but I'll definitely check out Absolute Write. I'm a member of a mystery wri…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-05-13:537324:Comment:2348802010-05-13T01:44:54.430ZJ. E. Seymourhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JESeymour
I'm a member of a mystery writers group. We're all mystery writers. It's not online though. If you go to the Absolute Write Water Cooler forums there is a Beta Readers forum to find beta readers. I sometimes trade chapters with folks, but I am pretty busy and behind in my critiquing at the moment. Because I'm so busy, I also find I have to be selective in what I choose to read. :-) I'm betting though, that if you go to AW, you will find a beta reader.
I'm a member of a mystery writers group. We're all mystery writers. It's not online though. If you go to the Absolute Write Water Cooler forums there is a Beta Readers forum to find beta readers. I sometimes trade chapters with folks, but I am pretty busy and behind in my critiquing at the moment. Because I'm so busy, I also find I have to be selective in what I choose to read. :-) I'm betting though, that if you go to AW, you will find a beta reader. I can't speak to SF workshops…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-05-12:537324:Comment:2348702010-05-12T21:13:27.766ZI. J. Parkerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
I can't speak to SF workshops (taught by whom?), but romance and perhaps also juvenile books follow publisher-set formulas. Nothing literary about that. SF is more varied as a genre, so literary SF is quite as possible as literary mystery. And that really means that both mystery and SF need to be focused on a particular type rather than the whole genre. The subcategories just aren't that much alike.<br />
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I should add that I'm somewhat familiar with SF because I've critiqued novels by fellow…
I can't speak to SF workshops (taught by whom?), but romance and perhaps also juvenile books follow publisher-set formulas. Nothing literary about that. SF is more varied as a genre, so literary SF is quite as possible as literary mystery. And that really means that both mystery and SF need to be focused on a particular type rather than the whole genre. The subcategories just aren't that much alike.<br />
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I should add that I'm somewhat familiar with SF because I've critiqued novels by fellow writers. In those instances, there was no difference in the style between mystery and SF -- at least not in terms of stripped-down prose and lots of action and dialogue. That wasn't exactly what I wa…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-05-12:537324:Comment:2348472010-05-12T17:37:12.984ZCamille LaGuirehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CamilleLaGuire
That wasn't exactly what I was talking about. But maybe you were putting this together with something I said upthread? When I said that mystery writers may be reluctant to comment on things they didn't know were real or not, I wasn't saying they _shouldn't_, only that it was a reason why mystery writers don't seem eager to give critique.<br />
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What I was talking about in the post you just replied to was the fact that there is a culture of conformity in sf and fantasy workshopping. It has definitely…
That wasn't exactly what I was talking about. But maybe you were putting this together with something I said upthread? When I said that mystery writers may be reluctant to comment on things they didn't know were real or not, I wasn't saying they _shouldn't_, only that it was a reason why mystery writers don't seem eager to give critique.<br />
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What I was talking about in the post you just replied to was the fact that there is a culture of conformity in sf and fantasy workshopping. It has definitely pushed the genre into being one of the most literary of the "genre" fiction categories. But you end up with a bias toward lush prose and extensive world-buiding. When I say lush, I don't mean purple. I mean well-written, but just more of it than average.<br />
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I see a lot of published and even award-winning mystery fiction that would never make it through any sf workshop. The voice, the handling of point of view, the prose, the techniques and scene set ups all violate too many strongly held views of what is good writing. I'm not saying that those who would have criticized are wrong - actually, in most cases I would have agreed with them - but I am saying that perhaps that best selling author was better served by not being in a group like that. Well, I don't think lush pros…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-05-12:537324:Comment:2348442010-05-12T17:14:02.070ZI. J. Parkerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Well, I don't think lush prose really makes it anywhere. And I doubt anyone would try to analyze a partial from the point of view of "who done it" before the end of the novel. If someone raises the the issue of believability before, it should be taken seriously, because the book needs to make sense at any time during the reading. You do not want your public to be reading the book while shaking their heads. And the sort of defensiveness I've encountered in my group when raising believability…
Well, I don't think lush prose really makes it anywhere. And I doubt anyone would try to analyze a partial from the point of view of "who done it" before the end of the novel. If someone raises the the issue of believability before, it should be taken seriously, because the book needs to make sense at any time during the reading. You do not want your public to be reading the book while shaking their heads. And the sort of defensiveness I've encountered in my group when raising believability issues ("But that will all be explained later!") merely serves to show that something doesn't work.