HOUSE OF CARDS - CrimeSpace2024-03-28T15:58:49Zhttps://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/house-of-cards?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A387956&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI'm coming in late to this di…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2015-09-01:537324:Comment:4099532015-09-01T23:28:00.176ZSusanhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Susan
<p>I'm coming in late to this discussion, just discovered Cards on Netflix. Must say I am addicted to it, not quite finished with Season 3 yet. As a writer, I can only admire the constant tension driven plot. Things always go from bad to worse. Also, as a writer, i don't believe one must "Like" a character, in order to identify with him/her. After all, we all have our (pick one or several) blind spots, perversions, obsessions, past bad deeds. </p>
<p>Sure, FU (dont ya love it? has his evil…</p>
<p>I'm coming in late to this discussion, just discovered Cards on Netflix. Must say I am addicted to it, not quite finished with Season 3 yet. As a writer, I can only admire the constant tension driven plot. Things always go from bad to worse. Also, as a writer, i don't believe one must "Like" a character, in order to identify with him/her. After all, we all have our (pick one or several) blind spots, perversions, obsessions, past bad deeds. </p>
<p>Sure, FU (dont ya love it? has his evil side, but don't we all? I can identify with one of his sayings: Sometimes it is more difficult and courageous NOT to ... say what's on your mind ... confess something ... whatever. I forget the exact quote: it's after Claire admits to the Russkies that she was there when the gay captive committed suicide.</p>
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<p></p> They're not relatable.
That'…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2014-03-16:537324:Comment:3877932014-03-16T21:35:59.395ZDavid DeLeehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/DavidDeLee
<p>They're not relatable. </p>
<p>That's exactly it. I just cant get into the characters.</p>
<p>They're not relatable. </p>
<p>That's exactly it. I just cant get into the characters.</p> Stephen,
Just so I understand…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2014-03-16:537324:Comment:3879612014-03-16T21:33:52.870ZDavid DeLeehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/DavidDeLee
<p>Stephen,</p>
<p>Just so I understand correctly--you mean they're not?</p>
<p>Just kidding, ducks and runs.</p>
<p>Stephen,</p>
<p>Just so I understand correctly--you mean they're not?</p>
<p>Just kidding, ducks and runs.</p> Basically, it's a soap opera,…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2014-03-16:537324:Comment:3879562014-03-16T13:41:34.788ZStephen Seitzhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/StephenSeitz
<p>Basically, it's a soap opera, not a drama.</p>
<p>Basically, it's a soap opera, not a drama.</p> I'm not in love with this ser…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2014-03-16:537324:Comment:3877852014-03-16T00:10:18.561ZSD Skyehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/SDSkye779
<p>I'm not in love with this series...but I definitely do like it. You hit a great point and I couldn't really put my finger on it, but none of the characters are really sympathetic and some of the relationships strike me as weird--like the Underwoods. It's not relatable, and they don't explain how they developed this insane balance. It's hard for me to buy that no matter how ambitious the couple may be.</p>
<p>I'm not in love with this series...but I definitely do like it. You hit a great point and I couldn't really put my finger on it, but none of the characters are really sympathetic and some of the relationships strike me as weird--like the Underwoods. It's not relatable, and they don't explain how they developed this insane balance. It's hard for me to buy that no matter how ambitious the couple may be.</p> Speaking as both a veteran of…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2014-03-15:537324:Comment:3878662014-03-15T18:11:29.439ZStephen Seitzhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/StephenSeitz
<p>Speaking as both a veteran of Washington and as a reporter, this show is awful, except for the acting. Nothing on that program could ever happen in real life, and millions of people will think government and media are actually like that.</p>
<p>The original British series, starring Ian Richardson, absolutely nailed it. As did the comedy series, <em>Yes, Minister</em>, which I regard as essential viewing.</p>
<p>Speaking as both a veteran of Washington and as a reporter, this show is awful, except for the acting. Nothing on that program could ever happen in real life, and millions of people will think government and media are actually like that.</p>
<p>The original British series, starring Ian Richardson, absolutely nailed it. As did the comedy series, <em>Yes, Minister</em>, which I regard as essential viewing.</p> I agree, violence for violenc…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2014-03-15:537324:Comment:3878612014-03-15T17:14:43.161ZDavid DeLeehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/DavidDeLee
<p>I agree, violence for violence sake doesn't appeal to me. HOUSE OF CARDS is very well acted and scripted, but for me that's not enough to keep my interest. The characters have to pull me in emotionally so I react when bad (and good) things happen to them.</p>
<p>As I said above. I think what makes Tony Soprano different was the therapy sessions with Melfi becasue it got audiences inside the character. He was actually a reluctant mobster, going into the family business because he had no…</p>
<p>I agree, violence for violence sake doesn't appeal to me. HOUSE OF CARDS is very well acted and scripted, but for me that's not enough to keep my interest. The characters have to pull me in emotionally so I react when bad (and good) things happen to them.</p>
<p>As I said above. I think what makes Tony Soprano different was the therapy sessions with Melfi becasue it got audiences inside the character. He was actually a reluctant mobster, going into the family business because he had no choice. Everything he does is for family. Something everyone can sympathize with even though the does it all the wrong way from societies point of view.</p> Ruhi,
Thanks for writing back…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2014-03-15:537324:Comment:3878602014-03-15T17:09:47.093ZDavid DeLeehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/DavidDeLee
<p>Ruhi,</p>
<p>Thanks for writing back. I love discussions like this.</p>
<p>I can see where you get your vision of the THE WALKING DEAD, but I don't see it that way. To me, the zombies don't represent anything more than the MacGuffin of the story. A foil for how people (good and bad) act/react to survive. Each of the characters have gone down really bad rabbit holes but always with good intentions at least to their own moral code. (even the Governor, who was bad). The title says it all The…</p>
<p>Ruhi,</p>
<p>Thanks for writing back. I love discussions like this.</p>
<p>I can see where you get your vision of the THE WALKING DEAD, but I don't see it that way. To me, the zombies don't represent anything more than the MacGuffin of the story. A foil for how people (good and bad) act/react to survive. Each of the characters have gone down really bad rabbit holes but always with good intentions at least to their own moral code. (even the Governor, who was bad). The title says it all The Walking Dead aren't the zombies (well they are) but it refers to the survivors as well.</p>
<p>I also agree completely about Raylan Givens He's an out of place/ out of time gunslinger who shoots too fast, reacts too quickly and too violently and flagrantly disregards the rules. But its for a good greater than himself. A character on the show recently summed it up best I thought when she said, "You're the kind of guy would would rush into a burning building to save someone without thinking twice. The problem is you probably started the fire." I loved that assessment. Aslo I think Boyd Crowder is brilliant. Another all out bad guy who's operating to save himself and his family by his own moral code. </p>
<p>As for BREAKING BAD, I haven't seen it, just going by what I've heard and read.</p>
<p>I am glad you brought up THE SOPRANOS thought. A show I binge watched and adorned. Tony to me is a good example of a bad character who does bad things, a true sociopath, but was endearing to audiences because at his core he was a father figure just protecting his families, his own and his mob crew, and struggling with how to be a better man than he is or his father was, hence all the therapy sessions with Melfi. David Chase showed that beautifully with the ducks in the pool in the opening episode. Brilliant. How can you not love a guy who's excited about baby ducks in his pool. Gandofini and Chase kept that nuisances throughout the show. So different than the Underwood in his opening scene.</p>
<p>I don't need Pollyanna stories, and I like dark stories, but to your point where you seek realism, I want escapism. I worked in corporate America. For guys like Underwood and Draper. It's like watching a day at work. Ugh.</p>
<p>I prefer to have my heroes be deserving of my sympathy. Raylan and Tony Soprano are, Underwood and Draper and crew are not. Just personal taste I guess. </p>
<p>Enjoy.</p>
<p></p> Interesting discussion. I gen…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2014-03-15:537324:Comment:3879452014-03-15T15:12:38.344ZI. J. Parkerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
<p>Interesting discussion. I generally don't care for shows/books that emphasize the seamy and despicable side of human nature. I avoid crime shows of that type because the protagonist is involved in violence against others and the violence is the reason for the show.</p>
<p>Now the SOPRANOS I caught almost against my will. There is a deplorable fascination with organized crime. What saved the show for me was the fine acting and script.</p>
<p>As for MAD MEN: I love this show. It dissects…</p>
<p>Interesting discussion. I generally don't care for shows/books that emphasize the seamy and despicable side of human nature. I avoid crime shows of that type because the protagonist is involved in violence against others and the violence is the reason for the show.</p>
<p>Now the SOPRANOS I caught almost against my will. There is a deplorable fascination with organized crime. What saved the show for me was the fine acting and script.</p>
<p>As for MAD MEN: I love this show. It dissects the American love affair with money and success. Don Draper is a very flawed character but neither he nor the others are without saving virtues. They are round characters and absolutely fascinating.</p> Thank you. A few comments bef…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2014-03-15:537324:Comment:3877052014-03-15T14:07:24.812ZH. Ruhi Yamanhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/HRuhiYaman
<p>Thank you. A few comments before we move on from the subject.</p>
<p>I find <em>The Walking Dead</em> downright objectionable. It is very much the glorified satisfaction derived by 'justified' killing of 'the other' stripped to its bare bones. In some ways, an unintended confirmation of what is mainly wrong with the US today. I can write a book about just the Freudian analysis of it. As for <em>Justified</em>, to my reading, Raylan is not the clear-cut character you assume him to be. Both in…</p>
<p>Thank you. A few comments before we move on from the subject.</p>
<p>I find <em>The Walking Dead</em> downright objectionable. It is very much the glorified satisfaction derived by 'justified' killing of 'the other' stripped to its bare bones. In some ways, an unintended confirmation of what is mainly wrong with the US today. I can write a book about just the Freudian analysis of it. As for <em>Justified</em>, to my reading, Raylan is not the clear-cut character you assume him to be. Both in Elmore Leonard's stories and Timothy Olyphant's characterization (he just carries his character from <em>Deadwood</em> to this one effectively) Raylan chooses to kill too easily. He is the laid-back version of Mike Hammer character of Mickey Spillane books, without the sexual hang-ups. Or, perhaps, like a low-fat twin of Ethan Edwards (John Wayne) from <em>Searchers</em> - a warrior that has to keep the war going as he has no place in a land of peace. I haven't watched <em>Banshee</em> or <em>The Americans</em>, so I won't comment on those.</p>
<p>I'm more interested in the complexity of a compromised individual than an Honest Joe trying to do wrongs right in a world gone bad. This is mainly because I don't believe in the latter. For me <em>The Sopranos</em> was the dark side of the American dream. <em>The Wire</em> was the dissection of the downfall of its main institutions (a season for each one - from drugs to politics to newspapers). Not a great fan of <em>Mad Men</em> but Draper is a poster boy of the real execs of image makers of the 60s. <br/><br/>I don't want a fairy tale to entertain me. I want a mirror to the society. <em>The Shield,</em> for all its implausibility, is more about today's copshops than Ed McBain's 87th Precinct and, perhaps, more entertaining.</p>
<p>And for <em>Breaking Bad</em>, it was the masterpiece of the last couple of years. Like <em>The Sopranos</em>, it lifted the benchmark of TV production to new highs.</p>
<p>Ultimately, though, all of those are morality tales. We are yet to return to the nihilism of post-war noir of Jim Thompson or David Goodis, or the cynicism of the Italian thrillers and Hollywood 'crime pays all right' anti heroes of the 70s.</p>
<p>Francis Underwood will not survive, of course. If the enemy outside doesn't get you, the Trojan horse that you'd built will enter your own castle. Yet, it is fascinating to watch his rise and fall. He is a zombie of sorts waiting for the redneck to hunt him down with glee.</p>
<p>Thank you for the discussion. Stay well.</p>
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