Murder and Humor: Oil and Water? The Tone of a Mystery. - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T12:15:47Zhttps://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/murder-and-humor-oil-and-water?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A239967&feed=yes&xn_auth=noRespect for the victim is imp…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-07-01:537324:Comment:2402712010-07-01T10:58:53.840ZCaroline Trippehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<b>Respect for the victim is imperative to helping to build empathy between the reader and the protagonist</b><br />
<br />
Now we've come full circle---because this was really what I was getting at in my post.<br />
<br />
The question of whether or not, when the <b>overall TONE</b> of a mystery is too playful or humorous, that respect for the victim is compromised. And if that happens, murder is trivialized. It's just something I think an author has to think about---because his (or her) readers certainly will notice…
<b>Respect for the victim is imperative to helping to build empathy between the reader and the protagonist</b><br />
<br />
Now we've come full circle---because this was really what I was getting at in my post.<br />
<br />
The question of whether or not, when the <b>overall TONE</b> of a mystery is too playful or humorous, that respect for the victim is compromised. And if that happens, murder is trivialized. It's just something I think an author has to think about---because his (or her) readers certainly will notice when STYLE takes over. It's important for a main character to be convincing---but I still maintain that too much of a good thing lessens the impact of the serious crime and the suspense.<br />
<br />
Or when the method of murder (as in some fiction) is improbable or ridiculous. That too, is a form of humor I've seen in some mysteries. They almost become spoofs. Or when the victim himself (or herself) is portrayed as a stereotype, someone everybody hates, etc. You know the scenario I'm talking about. So yes. Respect for the victim! That's it. "I appreciate an author that…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-30:537324:Comment:2401542010-06-30T17:07:02.303ZDana Kinghttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/DanaKing
"I appreciate an author that can be respectful of the victim and still create some fun with the other parts of the story"<br />
<br />
That may be the best description yet. Respect for the victim is imperative to helping to build empathy between the reader and the protagonist. A lot of things can be funny in a story, laugh out loud funny, even, but the acknowledgment of the act of murder has to show deference to the seriousness of the offense in some way.
"I appreciate an author that can be respectful of the victim and still create some fun with the other parts of the story"<br />
<br />
That may be the best description yet. Respect for the victim is imperative to helping to build empathy between the reader and the protagonist. A lot of things can be funny in a story, laugh out loud funny, even, but the acknowledgment of the act of murder has to show deference to the seriousness of the offense in some way. Holmes's dry wit surfaced fro…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-30:537324:Comment:2401532010-06-30T17:03:37.011ZDana Kinghttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/DanaKing
Holmes's dry wit surfaced from time to time, usually when he noticed something that showed him the culprit thought himself to be clever. There are quite a few asides to Watson tat show tis. Of course, I can remember none of them now. Once again, I choke under pressure.
Holmes's dry wit surfaced from time to time, usually when he noticed something that showed him the culprit thought himself to be clever. There are quite a few asides to Watson tat show tis. Of course, I can remember none of them now. Once again, I choke under pressure. fame (even the fame that come…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-30:537324:Comment:2401062010-06-30T09:53:35.541ZCaroline Trippehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<b>fame (even the fame that comes with Edgars) has nothing to do with the quality of the books.</b><br />
<br />
It's pretty much the same with poetry and with visual art. Jurors/juries, awards panels, often have their own agendas---"political" ones. Which is not to say that quality always goes unrecognized---but it may not be getting as much attention as forms that satisfy other "criteria." :)<br />
<br />
Thanks for the recommendation.
<b>fame (even the fame that comes with Edgars) has nothing to do with the quality of the books.</b><br />
<br />
It's pretty much the same with poetry and with visual art. Jurors/juries, awards panels, often have their own agendas---"political" ones. Which is not to say that quality always goes unrecognized---but it may not be getting as much attention as forms that satisfy other "criteria." :)<br />
<br />
Thanks for the recommendation. Come to think of it, the Jack…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-29:537324:Comment:2400542010-06-29T21:07:38.452ZI. J. Parkerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
Come to think of it, the Jack Frost series by R.D.Wingfield does this wonderfully well. A disreputable detective who steals his snotty superior's cigarettes and fiddles his car expenses but who has an incredibly soft heart for the victims' families.<br />
<br />
Those books deserved a great deal better than they ever got from critics and awards juries. Proof once again that fame (even the fame that comes with Edgars) has nothing to do with the quality of the books.
Come to think of it, the Jack Frost series by R.D.Wingfield does this wonderfully well. A disreputable detective who steals his snotty superior's cigarettes and fiddles his car expenses but who has an incredibly soft heart for the victims' families.<br />
<br />
Those books deserved a great deal better than they ever got from critics and awards juries. Proof once again that fame (even the fame that comes with Edgars) has nothing to do with the quality of the books. I only like the Jack Taylor s…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-29:537324:Comment:2400522010-06-29T21:02:40.328ZI. J. Parkerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
I only like the Jack Taylor series, but those, I think, are superb. Irish noir. Check Amazon to see which is the first. I think it's THE GUARDS.
I only like the Jack Taylor series, but those, I think, are superb. Irish noir. Check Amazon to see which is the first. I think it's THE GUARDS. Looked at his website....so m…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-29:537324:Comment:2400492010-06-29T19:55:07.091ZCaroline Trippehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
Looked at his website....so many books! Any suggestions about where to start? Do you have a favorite? (Anybody is free to suggest).<br />
I was thinking I didn't really need recommendations---I check out my SYKM newsletters---but I'm starting to think this would be a better way. Except I am going to end up with a VERY long list! :)
Looked at his website....so many books! Any suggestions about where to start? Do you have a favorite? (Anybody is free to suggest).<br />
I was thinking I didn't really need recommendations---I check out my SYKM newsletters---but I'm starting to think this would be a better way. Except I am going to end up with a VERY long list! :) came out to around 40 typewri…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-29:537324:Comment:2400482010-06-29T19:51:49.621ZCaroline Trippehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<b>came out to around 40 typewritten pages.</b><br />
<br />
That's pretty impressive for a 9-year-old. Or even two. I must have been about that age as well.<br />
As it turns out, I had (have) no gift for plot. (I always though it would be terrific fun to write mysteries---I just don't have a clue how to start, ha ha. ) I was great with titles, though! I could make up a dozen at a time. And I loved to draw. (Still do).<br />
<br />
i'm sure if I had written a mystery then it would have been funny all right---though maybe…
<b>came out to around 40 typewritten pages.</b><br />
<br />
That's pretty impressive for a 9-year-old. Or even two. I must have been about that age as well.<br />
As it turns out, I had (have) no gift for plot. (I always though it would be terrific fun to write mysteries---I just don't have a clue how to start, ha ha. ) I was great with titles, though! I could make up a dozen at a time. And I loved to draw. (Still do).<br />
<br />
i'm sure if I had written a mystery then it would have been funny all right---though maybe not in a way I'd intended! :D<br />
<br />
Of course there weren't any bodies in Nancy Drew, as I recall. They were mysteries--about things gone missing, "treasures" hidden in old clocks, all very clean and a little bit scary.<br />
I can't remember one other single thing about them except that Nancy had the car and Ned had money. And George....today, she'd had been the real sleuth! LOL! That was how I approache…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-29:537324:Comment:2400462010-06-29T19:26:50.882ZPepper Smithhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Reefrunner
LOL! That was how I approached the writing of my first mystery story--made up the title and drew the cover before the first word was written. Of course, I was nine at the time, so it made perfect sense to do it that way...<br />
<br />
It was a joint project, written with a friend, and came out to around 40 typewritten pages. No murder, but attempted ones, very Hardy Boys-ish in nature.<br />
<br />
I don't mind humor in a mystery, as long as it's appropriate to the story. But it really does have to be a natural…
LOL! That was how I approached the writing of my first mystery story--made up the title and drew the cover before the first word was written. Of course, I was nine at the time, so it made perfect sense to do it that way...<br />
<br />
It was a joint project, written with a friend, and came out to around 40 typewritten pages. No murder, but attempted ones, very Hardy Boys-ish in nature.<br />
<br />
I don't mind humor in a mystery, as long as it's appropriate to the story. But it really does have to be a natural outgrowth of characters and situations. If it feels forced, I'm less likely to want to finish reading the book. Oh, Donna--just left you a li…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2010-06-29:537324:Comment:2400412010-06-29T18:05:09.742ZCaroline Trippehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
Oh, Donna--just left you a little message--didn't have space to say much. Re: Nancy Drew/ Carolyn Keene---I found out years later---you probably know this: Carolyn Keene was a whole LOT of different writers! No such person at all!<br />
Yeah, we outgrew Nancy. Sad, but it had to happen. :) I used to get all those mysteries from the library across the street---I loved the titles, (The Secret of Lilac Lane?) and the little black and white illustrations. I would eat them up, along with the Trixie Belden…
Oh, Donna--just left you a little message--didn't have space to say much. Re: Nancy Drew/ Carolyn Keene---I found out years later---you probably know this: Carolyn Keene was a whole LOT of different writers! No such person at all!<br />
Yeah, we outgrew Nancy. Sad, but it had to happen. :) I used to get all those mysteries from the library across the street---I loved the titles, (The Secret of Lilac Lane?) and the little black and white illustrations. I would eat them up, along with the Trixie Belden stories, and get all fired up to write my own. That usually went well for a couple of hours. I'd come up with an appropriately tantalizing title---and the cover illustration (girls with flashlights, sneaking through woods, etc.) and then lose interest. :) But, once a mystery fan---always a mystery fan! (I never followed anyone, though!)