Noir - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T15:58:08Zhttps://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/noir?commentId=537324%3AComment%3A360304&feed=yes&xn_auth=noAgree with a lot here. Happy…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-11-17:537324:Comment:3607932012-11-17T23:15:36.325ZM.E. Purfieldhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/MEPurfield
<p>Agree with a lot here. Happy ending no, but spiritually satisfying yes.</p>
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<p>I think a noir story that didnt have some kind of honesty to it would disqualify it. I mean honesty in the social scene it is portraying. I hate seeing stereo tyes portrayed.</p>
<p>Speaking of hybrids, has noir fantasy been mentioned?</p>
<p>Agree with a lot here. Happy ending no, but spiritually satisfying yes.</p>
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<p>I think a noir story that didnt have some kind of honesty to it would disqualify it. I mean honesty in the social scene it is portraying. I hate seeing stereo tyes portrayed.</p>
<p>Speaking of hybrids, has noir fantasy been mentioned?</p> @Gamal - sorry, my keyboard k…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-11-15:537324:Comment:3607522012-11-15T14:37:44.152ZVictoria Doughertyhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/VictoriaDougherty
<p>@Gamal - sorry, my keyboard keeps sticking today.</p>
<p>@Gamal - sorry, my keyboard keeps sticking today.</p> @Gmal - you're welcome. I lo…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-11-15:537324:Comment:3606602012-11-15T14:37:04.306ZVictoria Doughertyhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/VictoriaDougherty
<p>@Gmal - you're welcome. I love a good discussion and all of the replies have been really thoughtful and fun.</p>
<p>@Gmal - you're welcome. I love a good discussion and all of the replies have been really thoughtful and fun.</p> If the story sacrifices the e…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-11-15:537324:Comment:3605802012-11-15T04:03:50.900ZGamal Hennessyhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/GamalHennessy
<p>If the story sacrifices the emotion of its narrative for the sake of a "Hollywood" ending then I don't consider it noir. One of the things that make Chinatown and the Usual Suspects powerful examples of noir is that they were not afraid to admit that evil does sometimes win and happily ever after isn't the only way a story can end.</p>
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<p>This is a very good question btw. Thanks for bringing it up.</p>
<p>If the story sacrifices the emotion of its narrative for the sake of a "Hollywood" ending then I don't consider it noir. One of the things that make Chinatown and the Usual Suspects powerful examples of noir is that they were not afraid to admit that evil does sometimes win and happily ever after isn't the only way a story can end.</p>
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<p>This is a very good question btw. Thanks for bringing it up.</p> Exactly - once something beco…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-11-14:537324:Comment:3605582012-11-14T00:59:44.170ZVictoria Doughertyhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/VictoriaDougherty
<p>Exactly - once something becomes "mainstream" it gets dulled and democratized. That's why I asked the question. Of course, I'm always for a fresh interpretation...</p>
<p>Exactly - once something becomes "mainstream" it gets dulled and democratized. That's why I asked the question. Of course, I'm always for a fresh interpretation...</p> What happened, I think, is th…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-11-13:537324:Comment:3604792012-11-13T23:58:30.238ZMark Capellhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/MarkCapell
<p>What happened, I think, is that Noir became cool, so it was used to describe anything involving a detective with a drink problem and a hang-dog expression.</p>
<p>What happened, I think, is that Noir became cool, so it was used to describe anything involving a detective with a drink problem and a hang-dog expression.</p> Bladerunner is kind of sci-fi…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-11-13:537324:Comment:3604322012-11-13T22:52:36.620ZW.a. Warnerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/WaWarner
<p>Bladerunner is kind of sci-fi noir, don't you think? The classic James Bond novels were very noir. Even the recent films have a strong noir influece. Spy Noir?</p>
<p>Bladerunner is kind of sci-fi noir, don't you think? The classic James Bond novels were very noir. Even the recent films have a strong noir influece. Spy Noir?</p> I pick up books, especially s…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-11-13:537324:Comment:3605552012-11-13T22:51:11.680ZW.a. Warnerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/WaWarner
<p>I pick up books, especially short story collections, claiming to be Noir. They usually turn out to be just regular mysteries. I think the term has gotten too loose. IMHO, a noir hero shouldn't openly proclaim to be seeking justice. Sure, he/she can be aware of it, can even obtain it. But he/she isn't motivated by fairness, justice or what society general deems as "right." If the protag is out to do what's right, and "right" seems to be uncomplicated or straightforward, then I don't see…</p>
<p>I pick up books, especially short story collections, claiming to be Noir. They usually turn out to be just regular mysteries. I think the term has gotten too loose. IMHO, a noir hero shouldn't openly proclaim to be seeking justice. Sure, he/she can be aware of it, can even obtain it. But he/she isn't motivated by fairness, justice or what society general deems as "right." If the protag is out to do what's right, and "right" seems to be uncomplicated or straightforward, then I don't see it as noir. The Maltese Falcon is a great example. He does what's right but isn't motivated by justice. To me, that's what determines what is and isn't noir. Booze and hot, double-crossing dames are nice too, though.</p> Noir-noir sounds like a Euro…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-11-13:537324:Comment:3605452012-11-13T12:55:10.563ZVictoria Doughertyhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/VictoriaDougherty
<p>Noir-noir sounds like a Euro art film meets psychological thriller. Could be great or so car-wreck awful you want to go kill yourself.</p>
<p>Noir-noir sounds like a Euro art film meets psychological thriller. Could be great or so car-wreck awful you want to go kill yourself.</p> "Noir requires a sense of ble…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-11-13:537324:Comment:3604132012-11-13T01:04:06.516ZEric Christophersonhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/datahog
<p><span>"Noir requires a sense of bleakness and despair, and characters so flawed, their failure is in their DNA." - Otto Penzler</span></p>
<p><span>"Noir requires a sense of bleakness and despair, and characters so flawed, their failure is in their DNA." - Otto Penzler</span></p>