Peter Stothard on opinion: - CrimeSpace2024-03-29T13:05:50Zhttps://crimespace.ning.com/forum/topics/peter-stothard-on-opinion?feed=yes&xn_auth=noLongform fiction? You mean m…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-10-02:537324:Comment:3565302012-10-02T17:14:40.178ZI. J. Parkerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
<p>Longform fiction? You mean movies and TV programs? I rather think that movies have so far been following books and not the other way around. (Leaving aside printed versions of "Murder She Wrote" or "Monk"). I have a notion this is heading in the direction of entertainment vs. "literature". again.</p>
<p>Longform fiction? You mean movies and TV programs? I rather think that movies have so far been following books and not the other way around. (Leaving aside printed versions of "Murder She Wrote" or "Monk"). I have a notion this is heading in the direction of entertainment vs. "literature". again.</p> Sure, but I'm thinking more a…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-10-02:537324:Comment:3563292012-10-02T15:29:46.645ZJohn McFetridgehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JohnMcF
<p>Sure, but I'm thinking more about the place of books in the bigger picture. Has the role of literature changed since books are no longer the only long-form fiction we have? Or has the role of fiction changed since we have other ways (not necessarily better ways) to get know other people?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Sure, but I'm thinking more about the place of books in the bigger picture. Has the role of literature changed since books are no longer the only long-form fiction we have? Or has the role of fiction changed since we have other ways (not necessarily better ways) to get know other people?</p>
<p> </p> It's very hard to know at the…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-10-02:537324:Comment:3566532012-10-02T15:25:02.082ZI. J. Parkerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
<p>It's very hard to know at the present time where we find our inspiration and which values will survive. Literature tends to be judged 50 years after the fact, maybe longer. And there is no rule that says genre novels cannot also be literature, or become important in their own right. Literary critics bring some standards or criteria to new publications that may suggest certain lasting values.</p>
<p>It's very hard to know at the present time where we find our inspiration and which values will survive. Literature tends to be judged 50 years after the fact, maybe longer. And there is no rule that says genre novels cannot also be literature, or become important in their own right. Literary critics bring some standards or criteria to new publications that may suggest certain lasting values.</p> “If the mass of unargued opin…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-10-02:537324:Comment:3566502012-10-02T15:11:25.840ZJohn McFetridgehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JohnMcF
<p>“If the mass of unargued opinion chokes off literary critics … then literature will be the lesser for it,”</p>
<p>Literature is already the lesser. Do many people look to literature for much more than entertainment these days? Maybe this is an idealized past, but maybe we once looked to literature as nutrition and now it's mostly just dessert.</p>
<p>Sure, we all have our own opinions, but there isn't as much nutrition in ice cream as there is in spinach (but, you know, someone will argue…</p>
<p>“If the mass of unargued opinion chokes off literary critics … then literature will be the lesser for it,”</p>
<p>Literature is already the lesser. Do many people look to literature for much more than entertainment these days? Maybe this is an idealized past, but maybe we once looked to literature as nutrition and now it's mostly just dessert.</p>
<p>Sure, we all have our own opinions, but there isn't as much nutrition in ice cream as there is in spinach (but, you know, someone will argue with that these days, too ;).</p>
<p> </p> What I've never liked is the…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-10-01:537324:Comment:3562152012-10-01T02:20:20.194ZJohn Michael Brantinghamhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JohnMichaelBrantingham
<p>What I've never liked is the review that simply says that a book is good or bad. The good reviewer should put the book into a continuum. Is it a good book for those people who enjoy Patterson's previous work? Is Ulysses a good representation of Irish modernism and how should it be read. A simple review saying that a book is good or bad is useless unless you know the tastes of the reviewer.</p>
<p>What I've never liked is the review that simply says that a book is good or bad. The good reviewer should put the book into a continuum. Is it a good book for those people who enjoy Patterson's previous work? Is Ulysses a good representation of Irish modernism and how should it be read. A simple review saying that a book is good or bad is useless unless you know the tastes of the reviewer.</p> All very true. Of course, th…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-09-30:537324:Comment:3564772012-09-30T14:08:35.227ZI. J. Parkerhttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/Ingpark
<p>All very true. Of course, there are reviews and then there are other reviews. I do read blurbs on backs of books from the New York Times, The Guardian, The Washington Post, the L.A. Times, the Chicago Tribune, etc. Their reviewers are intelligent and well-read people or they wouldn't be on the staff of those papers.</p>
<p>I do not like famous author blurbs, partially because some are outright lies when the author couldn't be bothered to read the book but was obliging his publisher or…</p>
<p>All very true. Of course, there are reviews and then there are other reviews. I do read blurbs on backs of books from the New York Times, The Guardian, The Washington Post, the L.A. Times, the Chicago Tribune, etc. Their reviewers are intelligent and well-read people or they wouldn't be on the staff of those papers.</p>
<p>I do not like famous author blurbs, partially because some are outright lies when the author couldn't be bothered to read the book but was obliging his publisher or agent, or they are kindly and overly generous praise because the famous author is a nice person who likes to give a struggling colleague a leg up. </p>
<p>The trade reviews (PW, Kirkus, LJ, and BL) are ok, but they lean toward content summary to give salespeople and librarians an idea what kind of book it is.</p> all reviews are by nature sub…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-09-30:537324:Comment:3562872012-09-30T11:41:01.372ZCaroline Trippehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<p><strong>all reviews are by nature subjective anyway.</strong></p>
<p>While I agree that one's initial response to anything---art, writing, music---is usually subjective (like, dislike), a person who decides to write a review of that piece can BE objective in the course of a thoughtful analysis. So IMHO it's never irrevelant to give examples. I may not LIKE a certain piece, but I can be objective enough to give credit where it's due, point out what I believe are flaws. For me, being…</p>
<p><strong>all reviews are by nature subjective anyway.</strong></p>
<p>While I agree that one's initial response to anything---art, writing, music---is usually subjective (like, dislike), a person who decides to write a review of that piece can BE objective in the course of a thoughtful analysis. So IMHO it's never irrevelant to give examples. I may not LIKE a certain piece, but I can be objective enough to give credit where it's due, point out what I believe are flaws. For me, being objective also means trying to achieve a balance. Weigh the good AND the bad. A reviewer owes it to his or her readers to let them know WHY he is making a certain judgment. Then let them decide whether they agree or not. Even if stilted dialogue doesn't bother them, they'll at least know what it was that particular reviewer objected to. The informed reader will make his or her own analysis. </p>
<p></p> The bottom line, I think, is…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-09-30:537324:Comment:3562112012-09-30T11:29:24.664ZCaroline Trippehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<p>The bottom line, I think, is that in this day of the proliferation of blogs and anything-goes opinions about everything, you (the reader) have to become your own "gatekeeper." Keep your own counsel. I wish it were not so, but it is. And you cannot argue with people who think otherwise. So, I don't try. I know I'm right---I know good writing from bad. And if I'm reading a review, I can tell an "argued opinion" from a "reasoned opinion" well enough to suit me. For instance, anyone who…</p>
<p>The bottom line, I think, is that in this day of the proliferation of blogs and anything-goes opinions about everything, you (the reader) have to become your own "gatekeeper." Keep your own counsel. I wish it were not so, but it is. And you cannot argue with people who think otherwise. So, I don't try. I know I'm right---I know good writing from bad. And if I'm reading a review, I can tell an "argued opinion" from a "reasoned opinion" well enough to suit me. For instance, anyone who describes anything as "awesome" has no credibility with me---even if I agree with them. :) </p>
<p>Book reviews are writing too. But they are preambles to reading something else. That's where the critical evaluation comes in, for me. If the reviewer is persuasive, I might read a book I wouldn't otherwise have been interested in. If I think the reviewer offers, as you put it, a "reasoned and supported opinion," then I'm much more likely to be persuaded. Having said that, I'll also say I don't often read reviews these days. </p> If that sounds elitist, well,…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-09-30:537324:Comment:3562082012-09-30T11:05:50.785ZCaroline Trippehttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/CarolineTrippe
<p>If that sounds elitist, well, that's okay with me.</p>
<p>We've lost the meaning of elitist, too. A fellow artist & I were talking about this very word, and concept, just the other day. He said he didn't mind being called "elitist," because what elite really means is "chosen," a select group---from the French "to choose." To be elitist is not necessarily to be a snob. You can be "elitist" and not be a snob at all. Ultimately it means that you recognize excellence---quality. There's…</p>
<p>If that sounds elitist, well, that's okay with me.</p>
<p>We've lost the meaning of elitist, too. A fellow artist & I were talking about this very word, and concept, just the other day. He said he didn't mind being called "elitist," because what elite really means is "chosen," a select group---from the French "to choose." To be elitist is not necessarily to be a snob. You can be "elitist" and not be a snob at all. Ultimately it means that you recognize excellence---quality. There's nothing wrong with that.</p> It's all just opinion, sure,…tag:crimespace.ning.com,2012-09-29:537324:Comment:3562842012-09-29T14:38:41.005ZJon Loomishttps://crimespace.ning.com/profile/JonLoomis
<p>It's all just opinion, sure, although there's often consensus among thoughtful reviewers, or something approaching it. Good writing has identifiable qualities--experienced readers know the difference between good dialogue and bad, etc. But the point is, whose opinion do you respect? The guy with the track record, or some schmo on goodreads who also reviewed 50 Shades and thought it was awesome? Opinions are just opinions, but informed opinion means a lot more to me than uninformed…</p>
<p>It's all just opinion, sure, although there's often consensus among thoughtful reviewers, or something approaching it. Good writing has identifiable qualities--experienced readers know the difference between good dialogue and bad, etc. But the point is, whose opinion do you respect? The guy with the track record, or some schmo on goodreads who also reviewed 50 Shades and thought it was awesome? Opinions are just opinions, but informed opinion means a lot more to me than uninformed opinion. If I'm trying to pick out a good bottle of wine, who am I going to listen to? The kid at the supermarket who drinks nothing but Bud Lite, or my friend with the great wine cellar?</p>