I've been reading quite a lot of crime books for a book award and I've have to say I've come across some ridiculous plotlines.  It's made me wonder how some books get published.  Does a ridiculous plotline matter if the writing is amazing or will the plot still be silly regardless?  Should writers have a good think before turning that strange fact they've discovered into a plot or should everything be grist for the mill?

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Hate is such a strong word. Jihad is hate, and psychologically suicide bombing is self-hate. Crusade is hate. Christians hate non-believers; Christians hate other Christians of a different Christian sect. Don't you all want to obey the golden rule preached by Islam, Judaism, and Christianity--Love your neighbor, as you love yourself?

I stand corrected, exclude the
Catholics are nasty, so are Muslims, Buddhist and Judaic folk. Y’all so nasty, you do not want to see the truth in life . . . Just love me. Love me unconditionally. Love me for being a living thing! Just love me because without me, you would not be able to identify yourself. Love me because I am like you, living on a tiny planet in the middle a very violent universe that would not hesitate to exterminate us all in the most violent way regardless of our puny beliefs. Just love me!

I do have to correct myself, exclude the Fundamentalist Buddhist from the hate game.
I just wanted to know which country was the Protestant fundamentalist one.
Benoit, I have to agree with Vic on this, you are taking the piss aren't you? Mind you, I've heard similar in Sydney's Hyde Park during the 1960’s. The very same place where in 1874 in the hustings and hanging grounds or Speakers Corner, free speech was banned following a serious riot between Catholics and Orangemen. However following the formalisation of free speech in Speakers' Corner in London it was decided in 1878 that The Domain would be the place for free speech in Sydney.

Now back to the discussion at hand, I enjoyed reading Brown’s Da Vinci Code, think his other books were either over/underdone. I’m with you Camille – it was a great yarn. Isn’t that what we’d all like to achieve?
Gaile what do you mean?
Benoit, I have to agree with Vic on this, you are taking the piss aren't you?

You lost me. I have nothing against Mr. Brown. He is an excellent author. I also think his marketing and PR is what makes him even better.
Benoit I was referring to Vic's post below - quote

Reply by Vic on July 10, 2010 at 3:34pm
as it's an aussie site and our sense of the ironic is legendary, I do have to ask Benoit - are you taking the piss or are you serious? I'm tipping your an aussie, right?

unquote
A good portion of the U.S. Were you serious about that question? Anti-Catholicism is rampant here. And much of that is driven by Fundamentalists.
Yes, I was serious IJ.
I asked because you said 'this' country.
I suppose I could've clicked on your profile to remind myself of where you lived.
No. Quite right. I should know that we have members from all over the world. Sorry about that.
I do often find myself reminding the (mostly) Americans on here that Crimespace originated in Australia and is run by an Australian in Sydney. A good percentage of the authors and fans on here are Aussies, Brits and Canadians.
Just saying!
The United States has proven that you cannot base your life on stereotypes or you will be an extinct species in a matter of seconds.
Consider the frame of time. It is not until recent that Black English have been allowed to represent Great Britain in the world cup, and Olympic Games, I believe 1992. Black Germans are still not “Real” citizens, true black Dutchmen are recent 1991, and , Polonaise to my knowledge and no no true black Spaniards or Portuguese, even though they all have the blood of Boers from North Africa and Asia Minor flowing through their veins. No black Chinese and yes I know a lot of Chinese friends whose families have been in china for the past 200 years. No black Russians, and the list goes on.

These are all so very old civilizations with rigorous religious beliefs and Moers, some as old as 5000 years. And, yet the United States of America, in the span of 400 years has transcended race color and religion (still struggling but has come a long way so friggin fast at lightning speed). That is the way of the future. We have dispelled all religious belief, every single one of them except that there is a God or not.

The US has a Black President whose father wa Kenyan, Indian Governors, Justices of Mexican decent, Autrian born Governors, Chinese born secretaries of Education, and the list goes on.

Join the way of the future or get lost. We are moving towards a "unirace" "uniculture"
Your old feuding ways that brought this world to its knees will soon be history
as it's an aussie site and our sense of the ironic is legendary, I do have to ask Benoit - are you taking the piss or are you serious? I'm tipping your an aussie, right?
Look, it all depends on the story. STORY is king. The Da Vinci Code did well because Brown spun a good yarn. Yeah, the writing, the plot, the characters were all pulp, but it was a good yarn. (And I have to disagree about the "marketing" being the secret behind it. I don't read best sellers. The marketing behind that book kept me from reading it for years - but when I happened across it one time when I was bored, I glanced at the first pages and found I was hooked. I didn't care how stupid it was. It was like reading a great, ripping kids' adventure mystery. I haven't read anything else by Brown since, and I don't think the book deserves critical acclaim, but it did deserve best seller status.)

But even if you are looking at books to decide which deserves critical acclaim: The question is not whether any aspect of the story is good or bad of in some test tube by itself, but whether it works in the service of the story. Is the stupid plot a part of the overall gestalt of the story? And if so, is the overall gestalt of the story something more than a nice diversion?

It's all relative.

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