I usually back away from controversy, but I'm shaking my head over the discussion over in the Forum about must-read authors. In 48 posts so far, counting my last one, only Sandra Scoppettone and I have dared to ask "Where are the women?" and "Where are the traditional mysteries?" And so far nobody has so much as commented on the fact that the heirs of Hammett and Chandler hold up only half the sky. I haven't felt so invisible since way back near the beginning of the women's movement. Wondering what I'll get with this post. Support? Hostility? Silence?

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Comment by J.D. Rhoades on March 13, 2007 at 9:58am
As far as women authors go, Flannery O'Connor, Annie Proulx and Carolyn Chute are serious influences on my own writing.

Y'know, it's funny, back in college, I used to mock Flannery O'Connor. I used to say that every O'Connor story could be in Reader's Digest condensed as follows: "Crazy old Southern lady in a hat comes to a bad end. The end." Obviously, I was a bit of an ass in those days. Because now, I look and see how much she influenced my own fictional world view.
Comment by J.D. Rhoades on March 13, 2007 at 9:43am
the atmosphere of a company is heavily influenced by the personality of the guy up top. It's a little strange to be that guy.

Imagine how us underlings feel.
Comment by Daniel Hatadi on March 13, 2007 at 9:23am
Having worked in a number of offices over the years, I've always noticed that the atmosphere of a company is heavily influenced by the personality of the guy up top. It's a little strange to be that guy.

I'm planning on trying to get some more trad. mystery type folks here, and maybe some more thriller writers (but isn't that what everyone writes nowadays?).

If anyone wants to plug the place to any part of the crime community, feel absolutely free to do so!

Umm, this topic was about women in crime fiction. I like women. I like reading about them, and reading crime written by them. A big fan of Sara Gran, especially. But yes, I suppose I tend more to the harder, darker stuff. Which in all truth is mostly written by men. Must get hold of some Val McDermid and others soon.
Comment by J.D. Rhoades on March 13, 2007 at 9:10am
Soon come, mon, soon come.
Comment by Angie on March 13, 2007 at 9:01am
Well, I tend toward the darker side of crime fiction. I've read tons of "traditional" mysteries - I read every single one of the Agatha Christie and Dorothy L. Sayers novels when I was a kid & will still pick up a Rex Stout every now and then. But my current fav's don't fall into that realm. There are plenty of women writers out there (and more coming every day), including folks like Cornelia Read, Anne Frasier, Sara Gran, Sandra Ruttan (members here along with several other really kick ass women writers I've undoubtedly missed!), Kate Atkinson, Denise Mina, Val McDermid, etc., etc.

I don't think too much about whether a writer is male or female when I open the book and read the first paragraph or page. I'm looking at the quality of the writing and whether or not the story appeals to me. I have gone on bouts where I specifically searched out women writers, and have noticed that (until fairly recently), there were simply more male writers than female writing the kind of books I want to read.

J.D.'s right on about the bent toward the dark side of the force, er, crime fiction here at crimespace. Daniel's tastes have undoubtedly influenced who knows about and has joined this fab community. Who knows? Maybe more trad. mystery fans and writers will find their way here soon.
Comment by Toni McGee Causey on March 13, 2007 at 8:49am
A-men.

I did think a few other women were listed originally... Laura Lippman was on there, Sue Grafton, etc. When I'm done with my draft of book 2 (or when the hounds of hell pull it from my cold, dead hands, whichever comes first), I plan on taking that thread and compiling a list by genre, so I hope you go put some of those names up there. Maybe others will reply to your thread with more in the more traditional mystery venue and we'll get a better balance, because that was my intent with my original question. (I think your list here is great -- i just don't want to forget to add 'em in later.)
Comment by J.D. Rhoades on March 13, 2007 at 8:40am
Elizabeth, I think the reason that crimespace seems more oriented towards the noir-hardboiled axis right now is that that's the sort of thing Our Founder, Mr. Hatadi, likes and those are the people he knew and invited first, then they invited the people they knew, etc. It's only natural.

But I agree, I'd like to see some more of our brethren and sistern from the "traditional/whodunnit" side of the aisle here as well.

Too LONG, my friends, has our church been divided. Too LONG have we looked at each other with suspicion and disdain.

So invite your friends who like the traditional stuff to join our fellowship. Yea, verily, let us even extend the hand of friendship unto the lovers of cat mysteries. Let us all be together in our diversity.

Can I get a A-men?
Comment by Elizabeth Zelvin on March 13, 2007 at 7:48am
You're right, Keith. I'm just finding it hard to believe that out of the dozens of mystery lovers on the list, the only ones who've spoken up were those who like hardboiled/thriller/noir--much wonderful writing descended from Chandler and Hammett. There is just as much equally wonderful writing that is traditional but not hardboiled: not just from Christie, who rang so many brilliant changes on the least-likely-suspect plot, but the more sophisticated and character driven Dorothy L. Sayers, Margery Allingham, Josephine Tey, Ngaio Marsh and their many heirs, including Margaret Maron, Laurie L. King, or if you want PIs, Marcia Muller, Sara Paretsky, Sue Grafton, or for cops, P.D. James, Ruth Rendell, Donna Leon, Reginald Hill (not noir, however robustly masculine), and in my original post I added some less usually cited favorites of mine, including Janet Neel, Cynthia Harrod-Eagles, and Peter Dickinson, who wrote some brilliant exemplars of the genre. I'd add Dana Stabenow and Nevada Barr to my absoluteIy must read mystery list. It's a different tradition and an equally strong one in terms of writing, plot, and character development. I understood the question to be mysteries or thrillers or noir or whatever subgenre the individual reads. I expected at least a few voices to pipe up with Peter Robinson, Deborah Crombie, or Elizabeth George, if not every one of my personal favorites. As I said, I was very surprised by the silence.
Comment by Lori G. Armstrong on March 13, 2007 at 7:31am
I appreciate that it bothers you, Elizabeth, that there aren't a ton of women authors listed as favorites, but...we like who we like. I'd venture a guess to say most of the members on this crimespace arena don't read a ton of "traditional" or "cozy" type mysteries so that's where that portion of women on the list is lacking. This is also why my list mostly remains...blank. I've got too many favorites to name and I'll invariably leave someone out.
Comment by Keith Snyder on March 13, 2007 at 6:52am
I can't find my way back to the original post you're talking about, so this may be way off--but it seems to me that people are just listing their favorites. I don't know that it's quite fair to ask for gender equity in a casual listing of books people love.

In a conversation about corporate salaries, sure. Equal pay for equal work. But favorite books? That's just whatever it is.

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