Subgenres within crime fiction

[Patricia Abbott]

As i pass the midway point of this novel I am trying to write, I see it veering back and forth between noir and something more like suspense. Is it my imagination or is noir perhaps the least read of the sub-genres? And it is certainly one of the least reviewed in major publications. Its devotees are tremendously loyal, but what was the last noir novel to sell a lot of copies? Would I do well to rein it in and place it firmly in the suspense sub-genre.
Will it be harder to attract a publisher with noir than with suspense? It maybe be too late, but heck!

[Sandra Ruttan]

I don't know Patti! You may have just opened the door to a discussion about what is noir, anyway? James Ellroy dubbed Ian Rankin the 'king of tartan noir' but if you look up classic definitions of noir, it could be argued Rankin isn't writing noir. There seem to be different definitions accepted for film noir and book noir, and in France I understand the definition is different as well.

So... depending on who you ask, I read a lot of noir. Rankin. Ken Bruen. Val McDermid. Stuart MacBride. Allan Guthrie. Simon Kernick. Cornelia Read. Of course, look at the way "noir" gets tossed around. Cornelia's book was dubbed 'WASP Noir'. There's a noir anthology collection for just about everywhere imaginable. Of course, people then argue over whether the stories included are noir...

It really depends on where you want to end up. In my heart I'm closer to a noir writer, although SC definitely got billed 'suspense' by a fair number of people, and the other series I've been working on is a police procedural. I wouldn't want every book I wrote to be a brooding introspective tale with a depressing ending, but the intent for the series is for things to get worse every book out. If you go with Ken Bruen's comment that noir is when it starts bad and ends worse, I definitely fit there. Ultimately, that's where I'd like to be. I can do suspense, but it's overrated to me, in terms of series books. I like characters that evolve over time, and am interested in exploring character in depth. While one book might be fairly action-packed, because of the story being told, I don't want every book to be non-stop action.

Anyway, that risks running off in circles. But I think there's a strong market for noir out there, depending on your definition of it. And I think you have to decide where you want to end up. Is there any reason a book can't be both suspense and noir?

[Patricia Abbott]

IMHO some of this list, maybe including Suspicious Circumstances, is hard-boiled. And some noir--like Allan Guthrie. To me, noir is more about atmosphere and style than the crimes that occur. I think I would be better served by falling into hard-boiled if I can steer it there. Maybe most of the reviewers see noir as atmosphere and style rather than crime fiction too. But you can only control a book so much. If I'm not careful, it will hardly be crime fiction at all, but some sort of in-betweener. Thanks for your thoughtful analysis.

[Sandra Ruttan]

I never thought of SC as noir, but I also never thought of it as hard-boiled. I always said 'mainstream'. Well, in comparison to everything else I write it wasn't as dark...

I agree with you that I think of noir being about the atmosphere than the crimes, although not everyone agrees. (Just pose the question on Rara-Avis.) In that respect I would describe noir as a dark story, with an underlying pessimism that runs through it. You read Rebus you expect him to screw up, sooner or later. Every relationship. Even if he solves the case he'll be in trouble. He'll never be billed a hero.

And hard-boiled/noir seems to go almost hand in hand. I've read so many definitions and opinions I think the lines are getting pretty blurred - just me, maybe?

[Patricia Abbott]

Wow, When I try to write that fast, all sorts of unexpected things happen. People die, for one thing. People jump out of the background. I think I am writing too much for my unconscious then. But maybe it's a good thing.

[Christa M. Miller]

I think you're overthinking a bit. ;) Just write the novel. It will turn out however it turns out - you've got a great, strong voice and I think in the end that will trump any pigeonholes.

[Patricia Abbott]

As usual, the mother I wish I had.

[Christa M. Miller]

Story of my life... always a mother, never an author. ;)

Seriously though. I see you as sort of a Lehane, with your literary background. His first novels in particular were extremely gritty and noirish, but his descriptions? Literary sensibility. Then of course came Mystic River. I think he had a bit of everything in his first books - noir, suspense, thriller, PI, mystery - but most of all, his voice. That is crystal clear, as yours is.

[Patricia Abbott]

Again, the mother I wish I had.

[Patricia Abbott]

And you are an author. At your age, I had no thoughts of being more than a mother. So you're way ahead of most women. You are and you will be.

[Christa M. Miller]

Thanks for saying that, Patti. See, we two motherless souls can mother each other!

[I. J. Parker]

Ray Banks said exactly what I was thinking -- both with his advice and with the suggestion that you cannot have (or should not have?) a series that is completely noir. I like some realism. Nothing is that hopeless permanently. I also like a sense that we all struggle because there is something worth struggling for. Mostly that is true for Ken Bruen's Jack Taylor also.

[Patricia Abbott]

I don't think I was even thinking of a series. Too late out of the box to think along those lines. Thanks for all the help clarifying it though. You're a wonderful bunch.