Amending this! Especially wanting to know good books about setting! As well as any other you care to mention. And if you're on Shelfari, please tell me! thanks.

[carole gill]

I find that there aren't that many books about setting.
I ordered one by Jack Bickham (Setting). Waiting for it to come.
Any recommendations for good books concerned with Setting? that would be great.
In replying to a discussion I just mentioned a great book I am reading. No, not fiction. it's called "The First Five Pages." by Noah Lukeman.
it's good I think to see what an Agent has to say.
If we want our work read beyond the first five pages (or sometimes even fewer than five)--before it's on the reject pile, then we should read this book. It makes sense. No use pretending things are rosier than they are, either.
I'm analyzing and ruminating on everything he says. And it's interesting. Extremely so.
Are there any good books you'd recommend?
I have a few in mind--but I'd like to hear what you guys say--and your reasons for saying it.
some books are more helpful than others--and it might be of benefit to hear which are the best.
Thanks guys.

[carole gill]

I see. that's great.
some I have, some I don't.
definitely will check those out.
thanks Daniel.

[Deirdre]

I'm on shelfari. Not all my books are listed there yet.

The Jack Bickham book is good (scene and structure). I have other books as well...

Setting... Hmmm. Description and Setting by Ron Rozelle talks about everything under the sun including foreshadowing, first impressions, freewriting, showing vs. telling etc. etc.

Also has writing exercises after each section, and a few charts.

The Scene book, a primer for the fiction writer by Sandra Scofield. looks like a note book (got it from borders). Is quite helpful and very nuts and bolts (basic). No charts, but does offer self evaluation templates, and also has exercises to practice what you've learned.

Plot and Structure by James Scott Bell, techniques and exercises for crafting a plot that grips readers from start to finish. (their line) Its good and helpful.

I think structural architect by victoria Schmidt covers it too. but I can't locate my copy at this minute to check. I hope I can find it... Its an excellent book.

Found it!!! It was in my brief case. Structural Architect covers everything the others don't in quite an easy to understand format with good examples. Its one of my favorite books.

Break out Novel series by Donald Maass is good too. Esp. the work book that comes with the (text) book. Its like a course at school.

Guess I have everything I need to write a novel. Wonder why I can't finish one?

Deirdre

[carole gill]

Deirdre girl! YOU NEED TO WRITE A NOVEL!
what don't you know?!
God, I feel dumb!
Will have to check on those.
thanks very much.
will probably look for the Rozelle one first.
Right now I'm editing in stages--hole plugging first. then will look at other aspects of what I've got down.
if I had been this diligent in school I might have gotten somewhere in life, oh well--at least I'm using my noodle now.
(while I still can).

[Tom Cooke]

If I had known I was going to live this long I would have paid more attention in English class.

[carole gill]

I DID pay attention in class and the stuff just bounced off my head!
the funny thing is, I only learned proper punctuation and grammar (hope it's right)! In secretarial school!
and that is the truth!
they had great books that really cleared it up for me.
don't know what happened to those books--lost in the several centuries since I went there.
oh well. we muddle on!

[Deirdre]

I did great in English class, in both High School and college. However, you have to forget what you learned in either class because half of it was garbage if you plan on writing a novel.

Deirdre

[carole gill]

giggling!
thanks!
true, really.
If you write with grammar and its rules controlling your writing it comes out so weird!
i've sometimes nearly fallen out of the chair laughing when I've put the grammar check on and see a suggestion for a certain sentence! it's a riot!
Like how aliens would sound if they tried writing a novel!
so true Deirdre!

[Deirdre]

Got 12 started and in various stages...
Life gets in the way quite often. I have to stop my roll, when I go back, its like I'm blocked or something. So I start a new one.

I'm going to finish one eventually if it kills me.

You have been a big inspiration. I remember when you started this one "by the seat of your pants," instead of planning.

I think I'm going to do a little more of "seat of the pants" writing - its more fun. Lately, my husband and teens have been leaving me alone for a few hours at a time. I usually use it for cleaning but I'm thinking maybe I'll use it for writing instead.

Have a great day.
Deirdre

[carole gill]

Deirdre!
you're so kind. thanks.
life gets in the way--but you know what, you'll find your own route!
it's true about the seat of the pants. it turned into the only thing I wrote that I really liked and that i'm working on now.
it IS more fun to write like that.
Ken Follet said something great about writing.
He said he thinks up two or three characters, puts them in a confined space and they give him a story. over simplified yes, but if you think of Eye of the Needle, you'll see what he means!
a paralyzed former RAF pilot, his love starved wife--and a ruthless but highy complex (and lonely) Nazi spy with information he wants to send to Hitler about D-Day! and where does it take place? on a tiny, outlying Scottish island--one of the most exciting novels I ever read!
anyhoo, let your writing be fun. always try something different, you never know where it could lead!
you have a great day too.
Husband is putting tiles up in the kitchen (my fav writing place. grrr will have to retreat upstairs)!!

[John Dishon]

DESCRIPTION AND SETTING by Ron Rozelle (part of Writer's Digest's Write Great Fiction series) is pretty good. It's the only book specifically about setting that I have, but I enjoyed. It talks about setting in regard to specific genres as well.

Amazon link is here.

Also, From Where I Dream, which I mentioned earlier, has a chapter called Cinema of the Mind, where Butler talks about how fiction writing is related to cinema. The examples he gives, especially from Charles Dickens, is a must read.

[carole gill]

thanks John going to see about it. JUST ORDERED IT! the rozelle one. the other sounds excellent too, but the setting is what I need now.
fantastic!

[Darlene]

I have to recommend Stephen King's "On Writing- A memoir of the craft"
it may not be a instructional manual, but it was very inspirational for me.
Darlene