Kirkus

[JT Conroe]

Message body

Kirkus will provide a review of an indie book for $425. Any thoughts?

[Benjamin Sobieck]

"Caveat emptor," man. Your success, Clay, depends on your client being successful beyond the short scope of the time you work together. A paid review and PublishAmerica have models that aren't dependent on the success of the author. They are already successful when the author signs up for their service. What happens afterward is irrelevant.

[EDWARD C MORGAN]

As the kids say, "true dat."

[Stacy]

Clay, PublishAmerica is the biggest author scam ever. They pretend to be a commercial publisher but they turn around and charge outrageous fees to their authors and make all their money by having the authors buy all their own books. They are dishonest and they try to pass themselves off as a legitimate press when they are not.

You made the point when you asked, "If they tell you what they will..." That's the point. They don't. That's why they are a scam. They make newbies who know nothing about how the business works think that they are a real commercial publisher and they even say they don't charge fees. Yet when the author signs with them, that's all they do. Then they treat their authors horrible.

If PA considered themselves a vanity house and were upfront about their fees then there would be no issue. People would know they'd be paying money. But PA pushes themselves as a traditional house and they are anything but.

[Stacy]

I agree a lot of the blog reviewers don't have expertise but I think the review is more about exposure. If you get your book reviewed on a popular blog in your genre it gets your name out to readers.

Do I think reviews sell books? Not really. I think the average person makes up their own mind. But, they can get your book in front of people who'd never hear of it without a review. For example, I don't buy books based on what some reviewer says, but I might buy it because I saw it reviewed on some site and found the book interesting. But I don't buy based on just a review. So I see reviews as just word-of-mouth. That's why bad reviews are just as good (sometimes better) than good ones because you still get some attention and a little buzz going on about your book.

But if you have no reviews it's very hard to compete. Someone, somewhere has to know about your books and reviews spread the word. That is, if you get reviewed in places that count.

[Jon Loomis]

I'll review anybody's book right now for $350. A generally positive review is $500; a rave is an even grand. Extra if you want me to actually read the book.

Daddy needs a vintage Telecaster, is what I'm saying.

[Benjamin Sobieck]

It's good to have you back, Jon.

[Jon Loomis]

I'll be here all week! Try the veal!

[I. J. Parker]

What?

 

But your offer to review was very funny.  The amount of money is hugely tempting when you can skim through and then write something in fifteen minutes.

In your case, the writers would get someone with an academic background, a wide and varied reading experience, and a knowledge of the mystery genre.  The same is not true of most reviewers, and most certainly not of those who are paid by authors.

Let's be logical here for a moment:  if you set up a business that sells reviews, wouldn't you tell your reviewers to be kind?  If they aren't, you'll be out of business double quick.  That sort of relationship between reviewer and author is just too close to be legit.

I must say, I feel better about those reviewers who will review only books they like.

 

As I said, you can't trust a Kirkus review any longer, and that may be the reason Kirkus is going out of business.  Publishers probably withdrew their support and no longer submit ARCs.

[JT Conroe]

Some interesting and entertaining replies to this question but not much in the way of practical solutions for an unknown indie writer when it comes to getting credible reviews of his or her work. I am still open to the idea that it may be appropriate to pay for an honest review if the reviewer has significant clout and credibility with potential readers. Payment for someone's experience, talent, reputation, time, and effort is not exploitation in my mind and no one has suggested a reasonably priced alternative.   

[Dana King]

The catch here is the elimination of the middle man. (Rarely is that term used in a positive light, but bear with me.) The reviewing outlet serves as an airlock between the writer and the reviewer, whose primary obligation os to potential readers. not to the writer. The outlet should feel the same obligation. Once the writer starts to pay for reviews--even if he expects them to be honest--there will be pressure to write favorable reviews. There has to be.

If you pay me $425 for a review and I rip your book, will,you come back for another? Maybe once, if you saw merit in the criticism. Say I ripped you again. Would you come back a third time?"

But I need you to if I plan to turn a profit writing reviews. It's a lot easier to sell to previously satisfied customers than to recruit new ones all the time. So, no matter how honest you want me to be, or how honest I'd like to be, the elepahnt in the room is I'll still want the money, and it's you (the author) i have to please to get it.

The pay-for-review system is inherently flawed.

[I. J. Parker]

@ JT:  Find on-line review sites that accept electronic submissions.  No money involved.  If you have a web site, ask your fans to post Amazon reviews.  I don't see much else that you can do.  It takes time to build some name recognition.  Publishers can create it from nothing, but an author doesn't have that much loose cash.

[Benjamin Sobieck]

Collaborate, JT. Swap reviews with other authors. I've gotten the most traction there. Authors can give you constructive criticism and tend to be less biased than a friend or relative. Through this method, I've been given a range of stars. I've passed them out, too. Learned a lot both as a reviewer and reviewee.