"Spinetingler" Submission Problems?

[Jed Power]

Has anyone else had problems regarding submissions to "Spinetingler?"

Within the past 14 months, I've submitted a couple of short stories to Spinetingler with the requested release forms.  I've followed them up with multiple e-mails inquiring as to their status.  I either received no response or got an  "Automated Response" that had nothing to do with author submission status.     

Also...what is the story on their "Release Form" required with submission and before an acceptance or rejection?  Didn't like it to begin with, but now with this experience, it appears a writer has signed away 1st North American Rights indefinitely, even if you've never received a response.

[Dana King]

I had a long reply written here, but decided it wasn't worth posting. Suffice to say, using a labor of love like Spinetingler to stand in for corporate oppression is beyond disingenuous. They are entitled to have their time and efforts protected just as much as you are. They don't want to find out they spent time and effort on your story, only to find out you either don't own the rights, or may cross them up should your story be chosen for their anthology, the one thing that might turn a few bucks for them.

Your "idealistic vision of writers" appears to be more delusional than naive. This is not starving peasants barricading the streets of Paris against the oppressive monarchy. It you want to be a martyr, run this game with HarperCollins or Penguin or another big publisher. Everyone here is in the same boat, doing what we can to get some writing available to the public.

[Jack Getze]

Us against them? Jed, that's crazy. We are YOU. We are ALL writers. We've gone out of our way to provide a place for new writers to publish because we know how it is -- no markets. That's what we do, our reason for existing.

[Jed Power]

What I tried to do is steer the discussion in the direction of one thing--is it detrimental to writers to have to send a release WITH submission and BEFORE acceptance?  Also, what would be the consequences if other, more commercial venues, see writers have no problem with this practice and adopt it as their own.

Instead of giving a view on this procedure, the few that answered fell all over themselves defending the publication by saying it had the right to do whatever it wished and with phrases resembling "if you don't like it submit somewhere else."  An editor or publisher couldn't say it better.

I understand that writers are frightened that they may be blackballed by a publication if they speak negatively about it (that would explain not one post questioning the release procedure and it's effect on writers out of 215 views).  And "Labor of Love" though it may be, publications of this sort can make or break writers through things more powerful than the $50-300 paid by other publications, such as exposure, recognition, awards, connections, etc.

And of course I understand the difference between Spinetingler and the big NYC boys, but if people are afraid to question anything about a smaller press they certainly will never stand up to the larger ones, if and when they get the opportunity.

As far as Spinetingler goes, I'm sure they do great stuff and everyone involved is honorable.  I was an "Active" member of M.W.A. twenty-five years ago and still am today, so I keep up with the comings and goings of the mystery scene, including being familiar with Spinetingler since its inception.  I don't visit it often because of its unique release policy and I also find the site a hodgepodge and very confusing.

I do apologize to anyone I may have offended with hasty words, but I've been around a long time and to see this level of self-censorship amongst writers today is quite disheartening.  Maybe this kowtowing does help the occasional writer advance his career; I wish it weren't so.  I am convinced though that it does nothing for writers in general and their interests.

Best,

Jed. 

[Jack Getze]

Instead of censorship, Jed, isn't it possible many other writers didn't comment because they see including the release with submissions as no big deal?

And for the record, we don't blackball anyone for criticizing our magazine or our policies. You've raised a good point with the 15 months. In this day of self-publishing, maybe that's too long a period a tie up a writer's work. Anthologies should be put together quicker. We'll have to consider this number. But we'll never run a story unless the writer tells us in writing (email) that it's his story to sell us. Hey, I do have a personal shit list, but only two names are on it -- both writers who rewrote a story under my direction and then liked it so much better they went elsewhere with it. Ha.

Also for the record, Spinetingler has not sold an ad in the four years I've been there. The time we give is our own. The $25 paid to long fiction writers came from the staff's pocket until our Snubnose Press took over this year. 

[John McFetridge]

Okay, I'm getting this now (I apologize for being slow...):

"...is it detrimental to writers to have to send a release WITH submission and BEFORE acceptance?"

No, it is not detrimental. This is the old, "no multiple submissions," that people have been using forever. Some publications accept multiple submissions and some don't. This is nothing new.

 

[Dana King]

"is it detrimental to writers to have to send a release WITH submission and BEFORE acceptance?"

No.

"I understand that writers are frightened that they may be blackballed by a publication if they speak negatively about it (that would explain not one post questioning the release procedure and it's effect on writers out of 215 views)."

I have never submitted anything to Spinetingler and do know that I ever will; I rarely write short stories. That means i don't care what they think of me, and I still don't see anything wrong with the practice.

John's right; this is similar to the simultaneous submissions practice. If I don't care for a publisher/agent's policies, I don't submit there. If an agent or publisher has a truly odious practice, the recourse is for all writers to go elsewhere, at which point the agent/publisher will either adjust or perish. That's on the writers; no one else.

[Jed Power]

1. Yes, it is possible that many writers do not see it as a big deal.  But if even one writer was afraid to respond to the post because of imagined negative repercussions, that is one too many.  And by the number and content of the responses, I am convinced there were some.  Also, many writers, I believe, would think it a big deal if most publications glommed onto the procedure and required a release WITH submission and BEFORE acceptance.

2. I never said Spinetingler blackballed writers.  I said some writers may be afraid of that possibility.

3. I have not expressed any disagreement with the 15 month requirement.

4. OK, John and Dana, I understand.  You would be quite happy if ALL publications required release forms WITH submissions and BEFORE acceptance.  I, and I'm sure others, would not.

Best,

Jed 

[John McFetridge]

Well, it's been a long time since I submitted something on spec (I've been with the same publisher for a few books now) but I do remember sending query letters and sample chapters and every publisher who asked to see the entire manuscript wanted to know if anyone else was also reading it before they woulod look at it.

I guess it was different for short stories, but I'm pretty sure most publications at least want to know BEFORE they read something if it is a multiple submission.

I'm still not seeing the problem. The magazine is asking that you not submit it anywhere else while they're looking at it. Is the problem because it's a short story? Because every major publisher wants to know if they are the only one looking at a manuscript - that's why they ask you to query first and not to send in the manuscript.

 

[Dana King]

"But if even one writer was afraid to respond to the post because of imagined negative repercussions, that is one too many."

The key phrase here is "imagined negative repercussions," notably "imagined." No one else seems to see these negative repercussions. Spinetingler is not responsible for the overly active imaginations of prospective authors, who would themselves do well to putting more of that imagination into their writing than into imagining the publishing industry is out to get them.

[Jed Power]

I have received private e-mails that were not too pleased with my recent posts.  One by someone I highly respect who told me some things about Spinetingler and expressed the opinion that I was out of line.  I don't feel good about this; I had no intention of upsetting anyone.

So, to hopefully show I have no problem with Spinetingler per se, but only had a concern about three issues (no response in 14 months, no response to e-mail inquiries & the release with submission) I will tomorrow submit a short story to Spinetingler with the required release for their publishing consideration.

Also tomorrow I will have Dark Jetty Publishing make a donation to Spinetingler.

I apologize for anyone I upset.  Again, it was not my intention.

Best,

Jed Power 

[John McFetridge]

Nice to have things cleared up, good luck with your story, Jed.

[Dana King]

What John said. Best of luck.