Amending this! Especially wanting to know good books about setting! As well as any other you care to mention. And if you're on Shelfari, please tell me! thanks.

[carole gill]

I find that there aren't that many books about setting.
I ordered one by Jack Bickham (Setting). Waiting for it to come.
Any recommendations for good books concerned with Setting? that would be great.
In replying to a discussion I just mentioned a great book I am reading. No, not fiction. it's called "The First Five Pages." by Noah Lukeman.
it's good I think to see what an Agent has to say.
If we want our work read beyond the first five pages (or sometimes even fewer than five)--before it's on the reject pile, then we should read this book. It makes sense. No use pretending things are rosier than they are, either.
I'm analyzing and ruminating on everything he says. And it's interesting. Extremely so.
Are there any good books you'd recommend?
I have a few in mind--but I'd like to hear what you guys say--and your reasons for saying it.
some books are more helpful than others--and it might be of benefit to hear which are the best.
Thanks guys.

[Deirdre]

My favorite: Writing and Selling your Mystery Novel by Hallie Ephron.

I like charts, and fill in sheets. This book is full of them. You can plan ahead or fill them in as you are writing doesn't matter. Helps you think and keep track, quickly and efficiently. Not to mention the great advice included.

Deirdre

[carole gill]

sounds good. will check that out definitely!
Carolyn Wheat How to write killer fiction--very good and honest too. she breaks down crime into the "Funhouse" of mystery and the" Roller coaster" of suspense. and I like what she says, "if this doesn't help you throw it out!" i loved that. but it is helpful.
The most helpful for me (aside from The First Five Pages), is Patricia Highsmith's plotting and writing suspense. But she's my icon anyway. i read that in one go! just got me. it's more an advisory thing--but very helpful. Have to say hers is probably my favorite.
that book you mentioned with the exercises sounds excellent i have to say.
thanks Deirdre!

[John Dishon]

The best one I've read since On Writing is Alone With All That Could Happen by David Jauss. It was just published this July. It's a collection of essays examining various writing techniques such as point of view, writing what you know, epiphanies, the flow of a story, etc. Jauss gives unconventional, and I think, more reasoned looks at these techniques. You won't find these techniques discussed this way in any other writing book, at least none I've come across, and I've read quite a few. Highly recommended.

Another book that gives a different take on writing is Robert Olen Butler's From Where You Dream. It looks at the more emotional, concrete, cinematic way of writing, and is also something you won't find in any other writing book (most writing books just say the same things over again, cover the same techniques. How many times do you need to read "show don't tell", "characters need to be developed", etc. These two books I listed above actually give some insight into the subject, rather than just covering surface details.

I've read The First Five Pages too. It's pretty good.

[carole gill]

wow. leave it to you to come up with new and different!
sounds very good. hadn't heard of those but will definitely check both of them out. excellent suggestions!
yes Five pages got me. I guess because it's so timely for me now what with the revision. you should see me scrutinize every word!
thanks a lot, John!
just going to look those two you mentioned up now.

[Graham Powell]

My favorite writing book is SELF-EDITING FOR FICTION WRITERS. Very much a nuts-and-bolts guide for getting what's in your head down on the page. Especially helpful was the advice on adverbs, which generally focused on (avoiding) using them to describe speech, he said portentiously.

[Angie]

I'll second this one. It's a great book and one of the few that provides concrete, useful info for writers.

[carole gill]

I know Angie,
It was recommended to me and I've just gone through most of it.
wanted a refresh--very good, very helpful
thanks!

[carole gill]

yes! I've been reading that. excellent book. very helpful.
Made sense. became an adverb phob!
thanks for that.

[John Boundy]

Carole...

Might not fit exactly, but a book I found very intriquing was Christopher Vogler's The Writer's Journey, the Mythic Structure of Story. Vogler boils down Joseph Campbell's The Hero with a 1000 Faces into an easy to read guide.

The book discusses common elements seen in all story; everything from fairy tales to Star Wars. It helped me devise my plot and define my characters by giving them obstacles in keeping with the "universal" themes common in human nature. While not a "blueprint" to a story, it gives an idea of some common things which can be incorporated very nicely into the story line. I used a number of the elements like the threshold guardian and mentor to flesh out my characters interactions in keeping with their role in my tale.

Hope that if you read it you find it insightful as I did.

[carole gill]

wow. thanks for that
sounds really good.
I love the sound of analyzing fairy tales and star wars.
a story is a story after all, and I think sometimes we forget that the story is the mainstay. without the story we have nothing--just a bunch of characters cooling their heels waiting for a story they deserve.
novels can be character driven--but there still must at the end of it be a good story.

[Graham Powell]

I've read this book too, and what surprised me was how many of my stories already fit the structure that Vogler lays out.

[carole gill]

wow.
better get that one!
thanks.